My first Paper Patched bullet!

[303Guy]

NO GLUE! The patch MUST leave the bullet at the muzzle!

I know. The glue reinforced patch was to keep the path from 'breaking' on chambering. But it's flexible and while it does not stick to lead...... The bullet itself is over groove size so it might still work. Anyway, that idea is a dead end. I have tried a glue smear on the outside. In the end, it seems I will have no choice but to size those prime casts prior to patching. (Oh, I did try egg white - that goes brittle when dry. Too much trouble!) Nope - I shall aim for the right sized bullet and two wraps of printing paper! My clumsy fingers are not good at handling delicate cig paper.

I will also have to give up on waxy-lubing those cig PP's - the wax will glue the patch onto the bulle I am sure. Well, it might.

One question, since I have this batch of large diameter long and heavy for caliber, g/c'ed bullets, what would happen if I raise the chamber pressure? Would the obturation of the bullet shread waxed cig paper?
This would be in my No4, two groove. This particular bore for some reason does not seem to lead (it must be the rust pits holding lube or something).

The Enfield was originally a BP cartridge.

I'm thinking about that!

[docone31]

I had thought of the softer papers. When I first started out, I used Meade Acadieme' Traceing paper. It dried hard!!!! I got good results with that.
I then tried regular notebook paper. It also dried hard. With the Meade, I did three wraps, with the notebook paper, I did two. In actuality, two wraps ended up being larger in diameter than the three wraps of Meade. With your large diameter, heavy, casting, size it to .308, wrap up to .317-.318 then size to .314. Check and all if you want to.
I think, with the correct powder and that casting, you will get great results! That big, heavy, is a definate for BP.
Meantime, get that roller, or make one! All they are are two rollers, an apron in a frame. The tension of the roll tightens the patch while rolling.
You have touched lots of banannas here, and it has been good for us. Your trials have answered many thoughts and questions, both I have had and I am sure others have. I have never seen photos like you presented, and a photo is worth lots of words.
You have done great!
Now it is time you realize the fruits of your labour!
You done us all good here.

[303Guy]

Thank you for your kind words, docone31!

Does this base skirt matter? It is caused by the use of a backward g/c as a mould plug.



I am now trying tracing paper because of its brittleness and it is thin (and a lot easier to handle when wet). No chance of twisting the tail. This bullet is 192gr and is slightly smaller than my others. With two wraps it is very difficult to seat, even after sizing with my collet bullet puller!



Got to get a pair of sizer dies!

[docone31]

You are getting there.
Get yourself a .314 sizing die. A collet die is not going to do it. You will be lucky if it fires with any accuracy at all. With a sizing die, it will be like a laser!
You are one dedicated dude!
I respect that.

[303Guy]

Thank you!

It's easy to be dedicated when one is having fun!

I got that rolling machine. It doesn't work the way they say but run it backwards and ....

So, my very first machine rolled bullet is drying! (Would you believe I botched my earlier tracing paper patch? I gave it three wraps! Doh!

I made an egg white on cig paper patch and it dried quite thin. I had to seat it in a paper cup and then I crimped the mouth - Doh! How's the cup and patch supposed to come out intact? Oh well ..... I've made bigger mistakes than that before!
But aside from the crimp, the loaded round chambers and extracts from the MkI just fine. I upped the powder charge since the bullet is lighter. When I trimmed excess patch from the nose, it fell away beautifully.

Gotta go load up that by now dried tracing paper (two wraps) patched bullet!

[303Guy]

This it. The funny appearance on the front part is from sizing the wet patch in a mould.



I lost it - will go make another now.

[docone31]

They are looking better and better!
I have fired many triple wraps of traceing paper through my Smelly. They ended up less than diameter for my rifle. I then went to two wraps of notebook paper.
That looks like a good tight wrap!
I just tuck my tail up in the base, and let the fired powder flatten it.
Those are looking better and better indeed. Lots of lube though, I use very little, just enough to get it through the sizing die.
My patches are running 1-1.5 thou over groove.
You look as excited as I was when I patched for my Smelly! When I then hit the target at 100yds, I couldn't contain my excitement! No flippers, no wild shots, and a good group! My patches also hit higher with the same weight as jacketeds.
It is great watching your progress!
I stumbled directly onto my size and technique. Size at .308, wrap to .314, hit the target!
I think you will get such accuracy from your .303, you will need to bed it to get all of it that patches can use.
Getting better, and better.

[303Guy]

Thank you.

Now a question.
How do I seat these boolits? The patch is iether loose in the neck or the it wrinkles. I tried sizing a boolit in a mould (it pushes out as per the casting) but the boolit moves in the patch. The surprized me since the boolit tapers down to the nose. But it made me wonder what would stop the boolit from leaving the patch behind in the bore?

Another question.
I can't seem to get the hang of feeding wet paper into my rolling machine. I have taken to rolling the patch dry by fingers then wetting them in the roller and rolling out the water. That seems to get them nice and tight and smooth. I can't get the tracing paper to stay wrapped when dry so I put a dab of glue under the trailing corner.

Thank you folks for the encouragement and support. It's been great!

(Of course, I don't expect to make real progress until I have the sizers I need - I was hoping I could use one of my earlier moulds as a sizer).

I am rather keen to get my No4 running on cast bullets in the 220gr range at hopefully around 2200fps. Thats for hunting.

[docone31]

Ok,
The patch will slide around with nothing to prevent it. That is one of the reasons I twist the tail and leave it there. I cut it and leave just a nub. The patched bottom of the casting, acts as a dam to prevent movement other than compressing during sizeing.
To use the machine to roll on a boolitt,
Lay the patch on the space between the roller. You want the first part of the 45* angle to start the roll so there is no open tip once it is rolled.
The wet patch will be 90* to the rollers. The tip will be between the two rollers. The boolitt will be placed so the patch is where you want it to be on the finished boolitt. I tend to leave less than 1/2 of the tail portion of the patch open, so the rest rolls on the boolitt.
The roller should have the opening roller away from you when you roll. You roll the apron on the adjustable roller so it pulls the patch into the apron. the patch will roll on the boolitt. I usually roll it a couple of times more to really roll out the water in the paper. I pop the patched boolitt out, twist the tail carefully, and set to dry.
The paper will stretch on rolling, and shrink on drying. I do not have wrinkled nose paper on my boolitts.
It will take practice, but, once you master it, you will be able to pop them out.
With the patches crunching on sizeing.
Possibly, not haveing a base wrap, and too much sizeing interferes with easy sizeing. Also, you might try rolling the land less boolitt on a file to engrave teeth marks on the sides. This will help in gripping.
The main thing is to get them rolled.
When I first started, I did them backwards. The paper would come out as I rolled.
Hang in there, you will dial it in.

[303Guy]

Thanks. Will go try it now.

[docone31]

A pleasure.
Several folks here walked me through exactly what you are going through. I mean frustration galore!!!!
I forgot to add,
Take just a dab of Auto Wax as sizeing lube to size your patched boolitts. The sizer will push off the excess, and the wax makes a nice shiney surface.
An irony, you are getting the issues I thought I was going to when I first sized my patches down! They actually just slid through the sizer.
You have come a long way.
Take photos, we will critique, laugh, lie, etc.....
Meantime, you will develop some great loads.

[303Guy]

Right, I did it! The trick with tissue paper is to square cut it and only wet the bit going into the roller. The tail is waayy too soft to twist so I just mashed it against the base.

This is straight out the roller - which is working better now that the apron has stretched a little.



I forgot to knurl the casting. Doesn't matter - this one will fit the throat and neck just fine.

Now to hold the bullet securely in the case ..... !

Actually, this is not frustrating at all because I know it I will get it in the end. Heaps of fun though! And great getting your feed-back!

Now I am itching to load up a few test rounds and try them on the range!

[docone31]

I am itching to see results!

[303Guy]

Say... aah... ummm.... docone31, have you by any chance been waiting for me to try rolling wet printing paper?

I just did and it aint easy! Tissue paper is actually easier!

I just found some old cast bullets I made many years ago, and tried patching them with printing paper - I'll just go back to tissue paper!

I also found some commercial cast 90gr, 32 bullets - They were poor as cast but when I patched them, .... mmmmm. Well, they fit the unsized necks just fine. I'm wondering whether they will shoot OK with a PP. (Hoping, at least!)

[6.5 mike]

303 guy. I've been following this from the boat. Seems like you've really taken to the
paper patching.
I roll some of mine on a old double cut file, it helps grip the tracing paper better. I'm still doing my rolling caveman style, with my fingers.
If you have some johnsons paste wax, try it for lube. It seals the edges of the wrapped boolit very well, thanks Docone 31.
Ya'll keep posting, I'll keep learning.

[docone31]

I have never wrapped with tissue/silkspan. I do know it is tough stuff though.
When I built my old school radio control gliders, some of them, especially Hank Struck designs, from the old Frank Zaic Company in Brooklyn NY., we would put silkspan on the wings, damp, use Nitrate Dope to adhere it in place, and let the tissue/silkspan dry. It would shrink and all the wrinkles, even the corners, went away.
Good stuff.
However, I found wet priner paper to have the same charateristics. In reality, the tissue/silkspan was tougher when wet. I could see where it could make a good solid wrap with enough layers.
A dab of JPW, and sizeing should be a snap. It will make a good shiney wrap.
Looking forward to your range results.
I actually looked more forward to my whoopsies than success. I wanted to really dial in a reliable, efficient wrap. I love casting, wrapping, and reloading. I am busy now, cooking off asphalt off roof boots outside. I will ingot inside after I get the pitch off. I use the pitch in my jewelery repair. I keep heating the asphalt untill it gets almost brittle. A smooth black. I pour it into something I can hold in my bench vise. I then heat whatever I want to set stones, or machine a setting. Once done, I flame the piece gently, pluck it out, and let it soak in denatured alcohol for a couple of days. I also use it when I do engraveing on flat surfaces. I heat the piece and let it set into the pitch. When It cools, it holds the piece very well. when I am done, I heat the piece and lift it off and do the denatured alcohol thing.
BadaBing! BadaBoom!
Total recycleing!

[303Guy]

I'm still doing my rolling caveman style, with my fingers.

I haven't mastered the rolling machine yet. I am preping some suitable boolits I have, caveman style too.

[6.5 mike]

Old habits die hard. I posted that when I saw your boolits didn't have lube grooves for the paper to grip, though it might help. I've been tucking the tails on mine under
like yours, seems to work for me.
Post your results when you can, I want to see how well this works.

[303Guy]

docone31, can I use pitch to 'glue' my bullets into the neck? The old Brit rounds were creosote sealed and wadded.

By Jove I think I may have got it! Patching an insized, as cast bullet to fit both chamber and case neck. This example drops into the throat of the No4 with the base level with the shoulder/neck. It just fits into the neck by hand without tearing the tissue paper. I'm not sure that the patch will move forward with the bullet - it is dry wrapped. (An odd shaped patch I maight add) (I made a template for it.)



The pen mark is where the boolit is bore diam. On chambering, the leade leaves an impression on the patch.

I will load this up on top of 40grs AR2209 for a estimated 1900 - 2000 fps (It's a 228grainer).

Hwever, the proof is in the shooting!

Something I have come to realize, I have to stay with the tapered bullet if I want to use them heavy. Otherwise they will not chamber seated to the base of the neck.

[docone31]

Looking good so far.
I don't know about pitch. It is pretty brittle when hard.
I just load mine, and neck em down to be tight against the patch without crimping.
Nice looking wrap.
Wrapped it dry?
I never did that.
The creosote they used to seal with was different than the creosote we get from our chimneys. It is a liquid and does almost the same thing as dipping in beeswax.
Try em. That is the only way to know.