My first Paper Patched bullet!

[303Guy]

Well, not knowing what the hell I am doing ..... this is my first ever patched bullet.

From the mould


Patched, lubed and loaded


Recovered bullet!!!


Primer to show good pressure (Zero leading or fouling of any sort in the bore!)


PS That's a 30 year old case that's still going strong! Used exclusively in a 107 year old rifle!

[pdawg_shooter]

Easy, isn't it? Why fight leading, low velocity, and poor accuracy when a scrap of paper works so well.

[303Guy]

I don't know about it being so easy!
I struggled a bit and it didn't actually fit the throat - the soft and thick patch pushed back but I shot it anyway.
Now to do it properly!

[303Guy]

... size the bullets .001 to .0015 over bore diameter ...

Yesterday I tried making a mould to cast just over bore diameter but I otched the filler hole. If my job doesn't evapourate today, I will try it again. The bullet I used is over bore but under groove diameter. It is tapered so as to fit the throat. In my speak it is 7.84mm at the base and 7.7mm just behind the ogive. (Translating - .3087 and .303). The bore is .304 and groove is .312 or .313 ? (I don't remember which! It doesn't matter - the bullet only has to fit the throat).

I used news print on my first attempt. I'll get some cigarette paper today and try that.

The reason for the gas check is that's what closes off the mould base (nose pour).

[pdawg_shooter]

Try some 16# printer paper. In my 303 I size .304, patch with 16# printer paper, lube with BAC and run through a .414 push through die. Works great!

[docone31]

Pdawg meant .314. I size mine to .314 also.
I might six the gas check. I patch mine without it.
What is the fluff in the photo with the expanded pieces? Did some of the patch make it to the target?
Did you notice the different "feel" when firing patched loads? Mine has a different feel overall when firing patched as compared to jacketeds, or cast alone.
Nice looking patch load.
Welcome aboard!

[runfiverun]

docone he needs the g/c it is the base of his homemade mold and the stuff in the picture is from his boolit trap.
303 the paper p-dawg is referring to is plain ol printer paper.

[303Guy]

Thank you, docone31.
The fluff is from the rags in the 'firing tube'. I did use an amount of cotton ball to fill the case. Cast bullets do indeed have a different 'feel'. A very pleasant push, would describe it. Just the feel of it alone would make me want to shoot them. I'm afraid I stuffed up on my 'patch bullet mould' and now I cannot do it again since my job sust evapourated - it's a recession thing! (You'd think now I have time to go shooting and hunting but instead I have to go job hunting!)

What is 16# printer paper? Where would I expect to get it?

[303Guy]

Thanks, runfiverun . You were ahead of me!

My new mould that I botched was supposed to work without the g/c. Actually, I can cast without a g/c by simply using an inverted g/c as the base plug. Trouble is, it leaves a small cup. Is that a bad thing?

[303Guy]

Right! I tried another trick, this time with ZIG-ZAG Rice paper. This stuff is thin and gets sooo soft when wet. I used a 'normal' cast bullet which is big enough to seat in the case onto the 'dough-nut' (unsized neck). I gave this bullet two wraps, let it dry them dipped it in my trusty 'waxy-lube' and seated it on top of 38.6grs AR2209. I did another bullet with a smaller diameter and no g/c. I have not looked for the bullet remnants as I don't expect to find much. Pressure was 'nice' (not too low and not too high). The bore stayed nice and shiny clean! This is the exiting part. I did have a slight mishap though. I extracted the loaded round and spilled some powder! On the up-side, the PP was reasonably intact so I just reloaded it and fired it. Now to load up a few test loads for range testing! (I have this thing about lube).




Seriously, these are Paper Patched!

[303Guy]

Recovered a few bullets.



Now I am getting expansion and reasonable pressure with 38grs AR2209/(H4350) One of the fired cases showed a strange looking primer. The firing pin indent was pushed out but the rest of it showed no 'squaring'. The recovered bullet was normal - no high velocity.



It's as though the pressure was sustained longer than usual. The bullet was tight so maybe it got pushed back into the case.

[docone31]

You can really see the file marks on the recovered casting in the center.
I see really rounded edges on the outer portion of the primer cup. The protrusion is interesting. I wonder if it is not the primer itself.
I know you stated you roll your prime casting on a file prior to patching, however, the two outer recovereds do not show file marks, except possibly the left one.
Are you prime sizing all the same diameter?
I notice, light rifleing marks on the left one, unclear rifleing on the center, and distinct rifleing marks on the right hand one.
However, looks good to me!
I have not recovered one yet! They burrow so far into the berm, I cannot get them. I have recovered jacketeds from the same berm, and rifle. My patched loads go deeply into the berm. It is Sugar Sand, so even the jacketeds show little deformation.

[303Guy]

Quite right. Only the middle bullet had file knurling. It's interesting that the file marks are still there under the groove impressions! The first bullet is showing scratches from sand in the bullet trap.

Are you prime sizing all the same diameter?

Actually, I'm not sizing anything - that's how the bullets come out the mould. But you are right, they are not the same diameter. I have three different moulds I have been experimenting with. That was very astute! I am not sure that I used the same paper on all of them either.

My new trick is to use a backward g/c as a mould base. I fired one of those and there was no apparent base deformation from obturation and no obvious flame cutting. However, something I did caused some fouling in the bore on one side only. I take the view that if 3/4 of the bore can stay clean then so can all of it!

I should add, as I get more practice, so the easier the whole thing becomes!

Just one quetion, how come all these theories about excessive spin on cast bullets causing bullet disintegration on exit of the muzzle, don't seem to hold true with PP? And why would PP prevent bullet base obturation? (OK, that was two questions!)

It is Sugar Sand, so even the jacketeds show little deformation.

What is sugar sand?

[docone31]

I believe, the non-compressability of paper eliminates to a large extent obturation.
On spin, I have another.
While a conventional gas checked casting goes through the barrel, the rifleing "draws" the metal. That, coupled with the rifleing engraveing into lead, and haveing three sides being "drawn", it produces fractional weakness on the rifleing engraveing.
With the non-compressability of paper, rather than drawing during fireing, it is swaged. As you saw from your three fired recovered examples, the rifleing lands were clear, but, unlike plain cast riflleing marks.
The rifleing is there with paper, but the metal is buffered by the paper.
This prevents stress moments within the casting to become cleaveages.
Just my random thoughts on this.

[303Guy]

You are a very clever man, docone31! It all makes sense now! Now that you have mentioned it, there is also the aspect of surface heating of the PCB surcase - that wouldn't help.

I have just fired my next experimental bullet. This one is one of my original 243griners loaded on top od 37grs AR2209/H4350. Primer flattening is no different to my normal jacketed loads (now obsolete!)

Take a look.




I do notice that the g/c seems to leave a concave base, but it is even.
The patch got 'scraped' off the boolit as it went into the neck. I left it just like that and gave it a hot dip in my lube. So remaining exosed bullet had a single wrap of very thin cigarette paper. The bore is nice and clean!

I have this theory that the longer and heavier the boolit, the more forgiving it becomes as far as boolit defects are concerned. (I also think it would be more forgiving from boolit weight loss on contact with game).

PS I now now what caused that strange looking primer - my finger getting in the way of the striker and softening the blow. Had a few misfires and a now piece of skin missing!

[docone31]

My .303 does seem to like the heavier castings.
Have you tried twisting a tail on your patch?
On blood letting, it is no good unless you bleed at least once!
How do you get in the way?
Seems kinda awkward. My finger is no where near the striker during fireing.

[303Guy]

It's from having to hold the rifle with the muzzle pressed into the firing tube hole.

I did try a tail twist but it came off - paper too soft while wet. My current lot of bullets still have g/c which actually cuts the patch. I might try opening the neck a little to seat the bullet then setting it back with the bullet in place. I just don't have the right size die right now. (Actually, I do - I could use my 357 bullet puller as a collet sizer!)

I can see how this paper patching thing can be addictive! It's like beer - one just has to make sure the beer in the next can is as good as the first!
Now I got me some 'tissue paper' and a piece of tracing paper but the shot did not have 'vellum' although they knew what it was.

[docone31]

I had spoken of "feathers" on the few I tried with gas checks. Each tail tore in at least one spot. Once I stopped useing gas checks, the tearing became extremely minimal.
I know, the molds you are makeing recquire the gas check. If you get a chance, make a mold that does not. Perhaps a nose pour.
I definately give you a great deal of credit makeing your molds. Good for you!
Here is another thought.
You are probably rolling by hand. Either on a flat surface, or free hand. Try a cigarette rolling machine! That is the technique I use. I get some real tight patches, that dry very tight.
With that technique, I use notebook paper, or printer paper. Both measure the same.
I get some really tight, strong patches. Definate confetti on firing!
My .303 British, when I fired jacketed loads, it was like I couldn't put both hands on my butt. With patched loads, I am getting clover leafs at 100yds full tilt. I had to bed the barrel as the heat of firing changed the POI dramatically. Once bedded useing the three point bedding reccomended for target shooting, it calmed right down. I under sized some patches, and smeared valve lapping compound on them, very lightly, and that really cleaned out my bore! I had hammer marks, after firing the loads, a mirror without steps. Just plain old sharp rifleing.
Seating the patched boolitt is an issue. Conventional .303 dies are too small in diameter. I found that out when loading my first series of patches. The dies cut the patches, pushed the boolitts too far in the case, just in general made crap. I fired them anyway. Once modified, my dies seat my patched loads very well.
I do think you are on the right track. Cover the base somehow, and see the difference.
When I first started seating my patched boolitts, I used a drill bit to wobble in the neck. That allowed the boolitt to enter the case without tearing. The seating die then compressed the neck with out tearing the base.

[303Guy]

Thanks docone31. Seating die - I never thought of actually using mine! I have been pushing the bullets in by had and that was it. I did try opening up a neck with a tool I had made a while back for that purpose. The 245gr boolit went in tightly without damaging the very fragile tissue paper patch (three wraps). This one was intended for my two groove No4. The long and large boolit chambered tightly and extracted! (I did not size the neck after seating). Because the No4 has a large muzzle device I cannot fire it properly in my 'firing tube' so I used a smaller charge of Lil'Gun. Pressure could have been higher but the groove held it's grip and left no sign of leading or flame cutting - which was a problem with this barrel. So maybe I can shoot PP heavies out this gun!

(For some reason, I cannot upload the pics).

Well, I have work to do so must stop playing for a while.

[docone31]

It has indeed been a pleasure.
Till next time.