I like these types of loads in my 357, for just regular old shootin'.
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I like these types of loads in my 357, for just regular old shootin'.
Paul
I'm not much of one to expend ammo on paper. I have settled on a load of 10.5 gr of 2400 under a 358429 NOE I don't miss what I am pointing at very often.
Good to see this thread getting re-started, Gerry's photos and all!
Some back-ordered Starline 38 Special brass just landed this week, so I set about loading some +P-level loads for (primarily) my Model 10 x 5". I'm NOT going to run them to 38-44 intensities, having 357s in the safe that can do the intrepid stuff (e.g., BisHawk x 7.5"). 100 rounds will get 10.0 grains of current 2400 under Lyman #358156/checked and WSPM caps, seated to crimp in the lower crimping groove (this fits both the K-frame Smith and the I-frame OMT). The remaining cases will get the same powder and primer, but subsitute Lyman #358429--my mould drops these at 163 grains in 92/6/2 alloy. Nothing esoteric, I know--about 1000-1050 FPS is likely, which increases the 38 Special's potential afield--assuming accuracy holds. I have winnowed out the weaker 38 Specials from the safe since I last posted in this thread, so there is no reason to restrict loadings in this caliber to standard pressures in the interests of platform integrity. If accuracy goes south, then back to the drawing board.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Allen: methinks your "new" loads for the K-frame are ENOUGH. Those 5" don't grow on trees/vines/or bushes (.at least hereabouts) Haven't been able to replace it at what I deem to be fair,,,so fnally settled( interim basis)for a 5" Official Police.. Onceabull
"The Eagle is no flycatcher"
The load I finally settled on was 5.5 grains of Unique, Lyman 358477 weighing in at 158grains and cast from range lead. I lube it with black moly (a goopy lube I make) and use once fired WW brass and Win SPP. Clocks in at a little over 1000 fps from a four inch S&W model 66 and does a little better from a four inch S&W model 10 heavy barrel. The model 10 for some reason (a fast barrell?) always will have somewhat higher velocities. I discovered with this boolit that it seems to prefer a heavier load and surprised me with the accuracy. So much so that I stopped looking for awhile and loaded up a few hundred rounds for those two revolvers.
It is time for the taxpayers in this country to impose term limits at the ballot box. Vote all encumbents out every election, no matter which party. It is time they remember who they work for and who pays the bills.
I used 7.5 AA5 over 358156 GCHP in my 38-44 HD. Velocity is around 1,100 fps and not hard on the gun or shooter.
Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.
Awright, sir. I'll try them in the 686 x 4" over the chronograph first, and see what occurs. An error made on the side of caution (as opposed to intrepidity) is far less "loaded", forgiving the pun.Originally Posted by onceabull
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Has anyone seen any pressure data with a 158gr cast over 10 or 11gr 2400 in a .38spl case?
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
No 2400 data here but it may help
Last edited by firefly1957; 01-30-2011 at 06:12 PM. Reason: mis read
When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.
If you look at Castpics/Articles by members/High Speed .38 Loads, I was duplicating .38/44 data found in earlier Lyman manuals for loading .38/44 loads in .38 Special cases. I also worked with some newer powders and brought them to the same levels of velocity and I had no problems.
These loads were all fired in my .357 Blackhawk but were not excessive to the point where I'd be afraid to fire them in a .38/44.
Original data in the Lyman manual was for the 358429/358439 and the 359395 HB wadcutter as well as I recall and I used these bullets in my tests.
The 2400 data in the old manuals was for the older, slower burning 2400 so don't go there unless you start low and slip up on it when using current lots of 2400.
IMO, the .38 Special in a strong revolver is the most underloaded round out there because of the vintage guns it may be used in....and one of the best loaded to proper levels in a strong gun or .357 Magnum. Now, I'm not saying approach magnum velocities in .38 Special cases but they can certainly be safely loaded to the original velocities of the .38/44 loads and that was 1,100-1,200 FPS./beagle
diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....
That was the powder charge I saw in my 4th Edition of "Cartridges of the World" using a 150gr GC bullet. I wondered about that looking at the loads that were listed here now.
I MAY be getting into a 5" 38/44 Heavy Duty but I"m not totally sure yet, the guy hasn't gotten back to me.
I knew I joined this forum for some reason.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"
I have been messing with the .38-44 Outdoorsman now and if you saw my old Handloader 2006 edition of this article its pretty dog eared and worn. I actually think that next to the .357 this is my favorite caliber to tinker with.
Here is my Outdoorsman.
I shoot one handed because of the injury to my left arm more than a year back. I use a couple of different bullets, mostly though its the old 170 grain #358429 with 12.5 grains of 2400. As you can see its pretty accurate.
That's good shooting, and that is a fairly " stiff " load also.
Ben
I have been shooting 10.0 gr of #2400 under #358429 for many many years, all in postwar M14's and M15's, with the odd M10 thrown in. No detectable wear, the cases eject easily, the primers look fine. I'm finally coming to the end of the Hercules 2400 I had stockpiled, so I'm going to have to play with the newer stuff.
I may switch to #358477 simply because I have a good Lyman 4-cavity, and the keith bullet is a 2-cavity. Mike V. wrote once that 8.0 #2400 was a great accuracy load w/ 158gr bullets, and so it has proved for me. I will probably start there w/ the new powder and inch my way up to the low-end range of +p case expansion.
It's been a while but in Ed McGivern's "Fast and fancy Revolver Shooting" He claimed better accuracy at long range thru the 'new' S&W 357 magnum. Distances the 38-44 ammo was tested at included distances of up to 500 YARDS, IIRC. 3 hits on a man sized silhouette. At shorter distances (2-300 yards) 5 and 6 hits were common.
This is a great thread to come back, been wanting to load some heavier than standard for the model 27 for a while. Let's keep it up, gentlemen!
This is the first time I've seen this thread even though it's been around quite a while. Anyway, to the point, I am thinking about some stiff 38/44 loads for my Ruger Security Six with 38 special chambers. Has anyone done any of these loads in one of those guns? I am led to believe that the only difference between this one and the 357 Mag version is chamber length. I am wanting a back up on a pig hunt. My main piece is a 35 whelen so this is a just in case gun. I would like to take a whack at a hog with the Ruger though. Oh, I will be likely shooting gascheck hard cast 158 gr SWC.
Thanks for any help
Bill
Old thread I know, but a good one. Thanks for the great info.
The load charts listed above are an excellent info source.
FWIW, I never tried the 10.0 x 2400 loads in any revolver other than my 686 x 4". They were "healthy", but simply the presence of the 357 Magnum revolver at the range site was a reminder that I had no real need to load 38 Specials to that strength level. It is safer--easier--and less reckless to down-load 357 cases than it is to up-load 38 Special hulls. I am a firm believer in "Murphy's Law"--that if a thing can go wrong, it will do so. There is also Paine's Postulate to Murphy's Law--which states that in venues concerning cartridge reloading, Murphy can be naively optimistic.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
My favoritest load for the 38 special is 5.0 gr of unique under the 358429. This is the max load in one of the older Lyman manuals and I successfully worked up to higher charges, but the accuracy was at 5.0 gr of Unique. This load smacks the steel target pretty hard at 50 and 75 yards, and I've never had a jack rabbit complain about it being underloaded...
I shoot this load in my S&W model 28 revolvers...which just so happen to procreate in the safe. I'm not sure how that happens.
I've been trying without success to get my pre-64 Winchester and Husq Mauser 98 examples in the safe to perform this stunt. No luck within the safe proper, but one more Winchester will be joining the ranks shortly. Is it mood lighting, or what?
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
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| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
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