You have to play jazz music inside the safe.
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You have to play jazz music inside the safe.
Check. NFL and MLB audio from the TV in the same room isn't cutting it.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
I've been shooting Keith's and Skeeter's loads in 357s forever, I've even tried them in a .38 spec. Colt Marshal, very painful. I think these are closer to 357 pressures than the 38/44. I seem to remember old Colt sales flyer claiming 38/44s were suitable in their D frames too.
A D-frame Colt 38 Special--e.g., a Police Positive Special or even a late-edition Det Spec--would NEVER see a 38/44 load at my house. The post-1969 DetSpecs WERE +P-rated, but there is a big difference between "+P" and "38/44". I'll lose sleep over thoughts like this......
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
9.3, I was just mentioning what I remembered.
Also for the shooter that was interested accuracy vs speed, I see a definite increase in accuracy the harder the 358429 is pushed. Has anyone else noticed this?
I'm not fine tuned enough, is the current 2400 really a faster burner than when it was Hercules?
only lot to lot variation. Better / more precise pressure measurement accounts for most of the difference in load data.I'm not fine tuned enough, is the current 2400 really a faster burner than when it was Hercules?
Has anyone tried using a 200 gr slug in a 38-44 load? Reason I ask is I have the 35 cal mold left over from my 35 rem days and have started using it in 357 mag cases in my T/C Contender rifle barrel. They are fantastic in it. Was thinking of trying it in my Rossi 92, but it is too long to cycle. in a 38 case it would cycle. Years ago I shot 38-44 with 11 gr 4227 with 158 swc in my Dan Wesson 15-2. It was very accurate there. Any starting info on loads would be appreciated.
No, this was a .38 Special goosed up to help LEOs penetrate car doors and such. S&W took a big frame .44 Special frame, and cut the smaller cylinders and barrel openings.
I have a few 38-44s and an old Outdoorsman. Never shoot anything but run of the mill 38 special loads in them. I just think they are neat revolvers. Lot of steel in a 38 caliber N-frame!
I understand this is an older thread. However I thought Larry Gibson's good work, done some time a go would do well posted here.... Jeff
Test pistol Thomson Contender 7.94 inch barrel
Case Used: R.P. 38 Special
Primer used: WSP
Boolit used: Lyman 358477 150 grains .358
Lube used: B.A.C.
Accuracy tested at 25 yards.
Excellent Accuracy = 1.5 inch
Good Accuracy = 1.5 to 2.5 inch
Useable Accuracy = 2.5 to 3.5 inch
Poor Accuracy = 3.5 inch plus
38 SPL
4.0 gr of Bullseye = 1009fps 16,200psi (M43) Low ES/SD and Superb Accuracy (under an inch) Standard Pressure Load.
+P+5.5 gr of Unique = 1103fps 19,300psi (M43) with Good Accuracy.
+P++6.0 gr of Unique = 1199fps 25,200psi (M43) with Poor Accuracy.
-------------------------------------------------
38 SPL
8gr. Alliant 2400 = 890fps 10,800psi Poor Accuracy, and Lots of unburned powder to clog under the extractor.
9gr. Alliant 2400 = 1014fps 13,200psi Poor Accuracy, and Lots of unburned powder to clog under the extractor.
10gr. Alliant 2400 = 1065fps 15,000psi Usable Accuracy, and still lots of unburned powder to clog under the extractor.
11gr. Alliant 2400 = 1263fps 23,300psi Good Accuracy, starting to burn efficiently, still lots of unburned powder.
12gr. Alliant 2400 = 1373fps 24,800psi Good ES/SD and Good Accuracy, and little unburned powder.
12.5gr. Alliant 2400 = 1410fps 25,500psi Good ES/SD and Accuracy, and hardly any unburned powder.
13.0gr. Alliant 2400 = 1458fps 27,100psi Excellent ES/SD and Good Accuracy and no unburned powder.
13.5gr. Alliant 2400 = 1516fps 28,100psi Good ES/SD Good Accuracy, and no unburned powder.
Factory reference ammunition also tested:
38 SPL
Winchester 158gr LSWCHP +P = 1049fps 17,900psi
Very Good ES/SD with Good Accuracy.
Speer 158gr LSWC = 901fps 15,600psi Excellent ES/SD with Usable Accuracy.
Remington 158gr LRN = 877fps 14,600psi Excellent ES/SD with Good Accuracy.
Winchester 158gr LRN = 901 fps, 15,200 psi Excellent ES/SD with Very Good Accuracy
Factory reference ammunition also tested:
357 Magnum
Remington 158 LSWC = 1475fps 25,100psi Excellent ES and SD, Usable Accuracy.
Federal 158 LSWC = 1476 fps 28,500 psi Excellent ES and SD, Excellent Accuracy.
S&W 158 LSWC = 1491 fps 29,200 psi Excellent ES and SD, Excellent Accuracy.
-------------------------------------------------
<snip>
Again note:
38 Special standard pressure = 17,000psi via M43 strain gauge.
38 Special +P pressure = 18,500psi via M43 strain gauge.
357 Magnum MAP 35,000psi (Maximum Average Pressure)
Last edited by Kawriverrat; 12-28-2017 at 12:13 AM.
"38 Special +P pressure = 18,500psi via M43 strain gauge."
Not sure where that 18,500 psi came from as you are correct the SAAMI MAP for 38 SPL +P is 20,000 psi. That is what my standard +P load with Unique bumps up against. Do you know the original thread that was posted in? So I can correct it.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Larry, I will try & find it. Your testing here was forwarded to me from another member.... Jeff
Or Barry White.Originally Posted by Love Life
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Good thread.................
Yessir. I do shoot "38/44" loadings these days, but they are put up in 357 cases and get fired in my rather stalwart 357 Magnums on hand at home. A Lyman #358429 starting out at 1100 FPS can do a useful bit of work.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
OH....THAT 38-44.......Actually there was a 38-44 well before this one. A special target round chambered in the S&W #3 Target Version....
Wrote an article about it for Single Shot Exchange magazine:
http://images60.fotki.com/v370/photo...SC_6310-vi.jpg
Can someone with the magazine post the tables from Gerry's post. Photo bucket has messed them up. Thanx......
Groo here
For all those loading 38-44 [or wanting to] remember..
The loads made by Keith ,Skeeter, etc[the masters]
Were made as a very specific load,,, powder, primer , and most of all boolet.....
When the said "a Keith bullet" they meant the true keith not some short nose verson...
The real volume of a keith in a 38spec is about the same as a 357mag as the boolet was designed for the short "38 " cylinders [like a M-28]
The newer SWC boolets set deeper into the case to fit a 357 case in the same cylinder.
Also . I saw ,in an old gun book , that S&W tested ALL there [at that time steel] revolvers [even chiefs] for 38-44 [there was no +P]
So , unless Smith cut some corners , ALL steel 38 revolvers should be safe with 38-44 OR 38+P if marked +P or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS this DOES NOT include ALLOY or ALU frames......
Mr. Keith always thought the J frame Smiths were strong because the bolt notch cuts were in between chambers. I believe he said this in sixguns.
That said I wouldn't run 38-44's thru anything other than a 357 or a Ruger. Metallurgy wasn't then what it is now.
Last edited by 30calflash; 06-26-2019 at 08:49 AM.
Boy, I miss Gerry Lewis GLL. Haven't seen any trace of him in years. I met him once when I lived in Ca he came and got an old .38 Keith HP mold I had to make some sample bullets for the catshooter .357 group buy. Mailed it back to me with several hundred beautiful castings. Great guy!
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