.40 S&W Green dot or Hercules Unique

[poisonknives]

I have a dilemma, i have never used Green dot or Hercules Unique powders for anything other than shotgun loads. i have recently bought dies and a mold for my SW40VE. my question is what type of powder would be best all around for number of loads and quality. Now the only problem is, my Hercules powder is the old stuff in the paper can with a metal top. 35-40 years old. being that the .40 hasn't been around that long, i cant find any load data for that older powder.

[HeavyMetal]

Each lot of a given powder will vary from lot to lot.

This is why new load info is supplied to us from time to time by the powder companies.

I have several older containers of unique and what I have done is start at the lowest published current data starting point and work up from there.

As long as the unique is unique it should be O.K.

I think I would try the Green dot first.

[poisonknives]

thanks for the help, i was leaning towards the green dot, but at the Allient web site they dont have any load data for a .40. the dies i bought for the .40 came with some load data, but the weight i am using is 145 grain cast bullet and in there chart it says. "for the 145 grain lead bullet use, accur #5,#7,#2,#9. but for the 150 grain jacketed bullet it has over 21 different loads for a bunch of powders including Unique, Green dot, Red dot, and many others. does that mean because i am using casted bullets i am stuck with only using ACCUR #5,#7,#2,#9...?

[felix]

A jacketed bullet provides more resistance than a cast boolit with the same weight and configuration. This means a cast lead boolit with a little more weight will, in general, act the same as the lighter jacketed bullet. What you have stated is the reverse situation, which gives even more freedom using the same powder for both at the same loading. ... felix

[jimkim]

Data from a heavier bullet can USUALLY be safely used to load lighter bullets. If your worried about it go to the 170 or 180gr loads....Plus what Felix said.

[randyrat]

Use the UNIQUE the best for the most versitile,accurate loads, but very dirty.. Just work your loads up using the 40.....I've use the old stuff and the new in the 40 cal. Always work your loads up any time you change anything. The new data is for Unique ...period. Just remember you go from safe to nuke in a flash with a round like the the FORTY CAL.
Try both but start with Unique and then use Green Dot for some fantastic night fire loads. Use sun glasses with green dot.

[randyrat]

I have to add to this. Don't try to keep up with SPEAR data using cast bullet loads. They are very hot and that bullet is a different animal.
When you get tired of unique and green dot try Accurate #5 / IMR in the LIME colored can (4756?)/ Clays... You'll find some great loads.
Don't give up on Unique, work with it a little in your gun you'll find a good load.
Start out with water dropped WWs.

[poisonknives]

Thanks for all the help guys. I think I will start off with the Unique, and use the starter load and work my way up in .2 grain increments till i find my optimum load for accuracy and consistency, I hope this powder works out good, i have over 5lbs of it, i didn't want to half to throw it out. The only down side of this old powder is the excessive powder fouling. I clean my weapons after every trip to the mountains no matter how dirty it is, so it shouldn't be a problem. Oh another question i have is, what is better for pistol, 100% lead for a softer bullet, or heat treated WW's?

[Leftoverdj]

Green Dot is a bit faster than I would like in the .40 S&W. Unique is and always has been a very flexible powder and will be an excellent choice. For informal shooting, I use air cooled WW. It's hard enough for my purposes since I don't have a power factor to make, and am not going anywhere near max loads.

[HeavyMetal]

Ya know I never can make sense of the way reloading manuals are "written"!

Case in point 40 S&W reloading data in the second edition of Lee's Modern Reloading.

I have Green Dot loads for 135 gr boolits and GreenDot loads for 150 gr boolits but nothing for the 145 gr boolits and these dummy's actually have a 145 mold in thier catalog! Go Figure!

Here's what I would / will do: the GreenDot 150 gr info starts at 5.6 Grains GreenDot and goes to a Max load of 6.2 grains GreenDot. I'd load 15 on 5.6 and shoot them looking for the obvious signs and see how well they function, or not, the gun.

Work up from there. The max Greendot load is supposed to generate 1175 FPS at 33,800 PSI I can't imagine the 145 won't get to 1200 before you have issues.

[Leftoverdj]

Ya know I never can make sense of the way reloading manuals are "written"!

Case in point 40 S&W reloading data in the second edition of Lee's Modern Reloading.

I have Green Dot loads for 135 gr boolits and GreenDot loads for 150 gr boolits but nothing for the 145 gr boolits and these dummy's actually have a 145 mold in thier catalog! Go Figure!

Here's what I would / will do: the GreenDot 150 gr info starts at 5.6 Grains GreenDot and goes to a Max load of 6.2 grains GreenDot. I'd load 15 on 5.6 and shoot them looking for the obvious signs and see how well they function, or not, the gun.

Work up from there. The max Greendot load is supposed to generate 1175 FPS at 33,800 PSI I can't imagine the 145 won't get to 1200 before you have issues.

With a few exceptions, Lee did not shoot their own data. They compiled data from the powder companies, and computer generated data for a few of the rarer cartridges from data for similar cartridges.

Since one of the obvious signs of too much fast powder in a .40 S&W is the pistol blowing up in your hand, I'd be very wary of hotroding Green Dot, Red Dot, AA-2, 231, or anything else in that class.

[Whitespider]

...try Accurate #5 / IMR in the LIME colored can (4756?)/ Clays... You'll find some great loads.

+1 vote for Accurate #5 and IMR 4756, never tried Clays.

[fredj338]

I'm also not a big fan of fast powders in the 40. Unique & lead bullets just works in evey cartridge I have tried. I don't load a bullet that light, but a valid rule of thumb is you can always use heavy bullet data for a lighter bullet. So if all you can find is 170gr data, use that, but don't use the starting loads, go to the middle load. Another rule of thumb, mine though based on testing, is that a 5% reduction in jacketed data yields approx. the same vel. which often means pressures. So take the 150gr jacketed data & reduce it 5%.

[poisonknives]

I don't think the load data for the 150 grain boolit will be a problem. the mold i am using is the " Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 401-145-SWC 40 S&W (401 Diameter) 145 Grain Semi-Wadcutter " and when i weighed the bullet after casting 100% ww's air cooled, they averaged out to be 150-155 grains. I'll still drop the grains of powder about 5% like "fredj338" suggested because the 150grain chart is for the fmj, not the cast boolit, just to be safe.

[superior]

I use Hodgdon HS-6 now @ 6.8 grains in my G-23. I get better accuracy than my 3.9gr. bullseye loads I used to use. I shoot the Lee TL401-175-swc unsized and lubed with either LLA or lithium bearing grease/paraffin 50/50. I have no leading or lube fouling issues. Pop-can accuracy at 25 yards.

[spur0701]

I've been shooting 401-175-TCs sized to .401 and lubed with JPW with 5.3 g of Salut (Russian Unique) with good success....but then I've been using them for general range practice and not trying to eek every bit of accuracy out of them that I can....but feed and function is great.