Black Powder 30/30 Question

[versifier]

I don't know how much hassle it would be to clean the fouling out of the workings of a lever action after shooting bp, but I don't imagine you can just dunk them in hot water and pump the barrel a bit. Maybe someone who has and does could comment on it. Bp and most of the substitutes are dirty and messy in use, and you can't wait for a few days before cleaning as the residues are also corrosive.
A bolt action or a single shot might require removal of the stock, unless the ss is a break action. Despite my misgivings about the H&R's, they would be very easy to clean. With a m/l with hooked breech, it's a simple matter to take off the barrel and clean it. Only the hammer really needs anything more than wiping down, and that's a minute or two with a few qtips.

[McLintock]

You first need to decide whether you want a repeater or single shot, then decide on cartridge. A couple of good books are by Mike Venturino and titled "Shooting Lever guns of the Old West" and "Shooting Buffalo Guns of the Old West", as he goes into the different models of each and loads for them, especially black powder in the latter one. A straight walled case is preferable, as bottle necked ones like the 30-30 are more difficult to load, but you can do it. Sharps made several bottle necked cartridges in the black powder only era, but most people shoot the straight walled cases these days. The 45-70 is considered the "beginners" cartridge, but it's very broad spectrum and will do about everything you want. It's available in many modern arms like the Marlin 1895 Cowboy and lots of single shots. The 38-55 and 40-65 or 40-70 Sharps Straight are also good possibilities. A round coming back and available in several modern rifles like the Ruger No.1 and Winchester 95 clone, is the 405 Winchester, which is almost the same as the 40-70 Sharps Straight, and a very good black powder cartridge. It'd do nicely on the elk we have in Northern Az also; I live in Dewey now but lived in Flagstaff for over 30 years, so it's great hunting country if you get drawn.
As far as cleaning a lever gun, it's no problem if you use good powder like 30 WCF commented on. I was out yesterday and put almost 20 rounds through my '94 in 38-55 with 41 gr of Swiss 1 1/2 and all it took to clean it was two wet patches (Ballistol and water), two dry patches and one with Ballistol on it for barrel protection. No cleaning of the action was needed. Also, I was shooting at 180 yards and it was just as accurate with the 20th shot as the first, without any barrel cleaning in between shots. I shot it all last year in Cowboy Action long range matches and never had to clean the action, period.
McLintock

[9.3X62AL]

I've cleaned a Ruger #1 x 45-70 and a Win '73 x 44-40 after shooting black powder, and Versifier makes a very good point about the corrosive nature of BP. I went through a pretty thorough detail cleaning of both rifles' internals using Hoppe's #9 Plus BP cleaner. There actually wasn't a whole lot of BP debris in the mechanisms.

The bores, of course, had their share of soot! I didn't want to get the Murphy's/alcohol/hyd-per mix inside the guns' mechanisms, but the stuff does a very fine job of removing BP fouling post haste. I still flush the barrel with HOT water after using this stuff, and get some oil on the metal as soon as it dries.

[omgb]

I'm not too sure I see any advantage to using special cleaners for BP. I use plain old water followed by Ed's Red with lanolin. I have used a 50/50 mix of Prestone and water and that works very well but no more so than just plain water. I've also used Balistol and water and that works well too. But again, so does ordinary water. I'd love for someone to tell me what I'm missing....seriously, I'm open to learn. I made some bore pigs a couple of years ago and use them all the time at the range but again, I just wet them in ordinary water. Like I said above, I do use Ed's Red with lanolin before storage but other than that, I have yet to find the need for a better BP solvent than water. As I say though, I'm open for advice.
R J Talley

[9.3X62AL]

RJ--

I tend to agree with you on the BP cleaning ability of plain old water. The solvents rely on a high water content anyway. The solvents do have their place--I suppose--but my "default setting" with the smokepoles is a bucket of hot water--the first one soapy, the next one clear. I thought at the times I've belabored the rifle mechanisms with the Hoppe's Plus that just hosing the things out with water might be a better method. If the wooden parts were synthetic, that's what I'd do.

Of course, Glocks don't use BP, and plastic on a muzzle loader is like a camper shell on a Testarossa.......so the dishwasher route loses merit.

[felix]

Possibly plain ol' water with a shot of clear vinegar will be a better cleaner. Lower the ph slightly. Then douse with distilled water, dry, and do the WD-40 equivalent patch to displace the water. ... felix

[Junior1942]

I use plain ol' dishwater, and when I'm through cleaning the black powder firearm I wash dishes in the same water.

[floodgate]

omgb:

A REAL Ol' Timer - when I was a young squirt, he was old enough to have loaded .30-40 gallery rounds with BP as a Marine before WW I - told me to do my first cleaning passes with COLD water; that it works better than hot, or any soap or additive, to shake the fouling loose (I've tried it, and it works for me); then finish up with boiling water to heat the metal and get it to air-dry.

floodgate

[azcoyhunter]

Wow

Thanks to all

There is alot more to this BP than I thought.

That to me makes it better, if it was easy or fast everybody would do it.

I need to save my pennys, and go from there, thanks to all, I will read and re-read the posts here, and I will, I am sure, ask many more dumb questions.

Thanks

Clint

[w30wcf]

When it comes to cleaning B.P. from my .32 Colt '92M, .44 W.C.F. '73 or my .45-70M, (and .30-30), I just shoot a few cast bullet smokeless loads through and clean as I would after a session with smokeless powder.

I know, I know, cleaning a barrel fouled with B.P. is part of the experience and I've done it enough times, but the barrels on the .32 and .44 ar pitted and somewhat rough and it takes a bunch of cleaning patches and b.p. solvent to get them clean. A few rounds of smokless after b.p. makes the cleaning chore that much easier.

w30wcf

[oksmle]

Folks .... Lot of talk & not much action. so I loaded 20 Remington .30/30 cases with 29.5 grains FFFG black powder (wouldn't take 30 grains) which is a compressed load with Lyman's #311291, my lube & Remington 9 1/2 primers. Rifle: '94 Winchester pre '64 with 1/12" twist. From the bench both 10 round groups were about 1 1/2' lower than my usual group placement at 75 yards but were close enough to the same size that the difference was probably me & not the ammo. I intentionally did not clean between rounds & the rifle & brass sat around a couple of hours after I got home before any cleaning was done.
I opened the breech, put a piece of duct tape over the innards, turned the rifle upside down in my rifle vise & cleaned with soapy water from the muzzle. Nothing got into the action that way & the bore cleaned up very easily. About like cleaning after FMJ's. After depriming the cases I dumped them into the dishwasher (along with a load of Mrs. oksmle's dirty dishes), & they came out sparkling & dry. No recoil. Plenty of smoke & lots of fun.
oksmle

[azcoyhunter]

Folks .... Lot of talk & not much action. so I loaded 20 Remington .30/30 cases with 29.5 grains FFFG black powder (wouldn't take 30 grains) which is a compressed load with Lyman's #311291, my lube & Remington 9 1/2 primers. Rifle: '94 Winchester pre '64 with 1/12" twist. From the bench both 10 round groups were about 1 1/2' lower than my usual group placement at 75 yards but were close enough to the same size that the difference was probably me & not the ammo. I intentionally did not clean between rounds & the rifle & brass sat around a couple of hours after I got home before any cleaning was done.
I opened the breech, put a piece of duct tape over the innards, turned the rifle upside down in my rifle vise & cleaned with soapy water from the muzzle. Nothing got into the action that way & the bore cleaned up very easily. About like cleaning after FMJ's. After depriming the cases I dumped them into the dishwasher (along with a load of Mrs. oksmle's dirty dishes), & they came out sparkling & dry. No recoil. Plenty of smoke & lots of fun.
oksmle

As you probaly know by now I do not know much about BP.

First, is there a different, primer then for smokeless? I have not heard of a 9 1/2 primer?

Do you just fill up the case?

Damn I should just get a book.

I bet you are getting tired of my questions.

Clint