Suitability of cast bullets for self defense

[Bret4207]

A few years back we had a guy blow away another guy who was the ex-boyfriend of the shooters lady friend through a door. He used a 12 ga IIRC. The Grand Jury no billed it. Think about that, this is NEW YORK, the guy never got into the house, he got shot through the door with no face to face confrontation and that was the end of it.

I doubt I would walk so easily, but it does make you think about the supposed problems we face.

[9.3X62AL]

I've been shot. I've returned fire with effect. I got sued. I got harassed and projected by the G-- d--- hand-wringing cowards I worked for over a period of years due to that experience. The SOBs finally died or retired, and I got left alone after some years' time. That's called "believing in the 'here after'" in my old trade--believing I'll be here after you useless REMF pogues have died or bleeped off outta here.

Involvement in a lethal threat management incident is not a thing I would wish on my worst enemy, but in a few instances a person may be confronted with no better option. It is for such times that a conscientious self-defender should prepare--and if there is some lesser option afforded you, by all means take it.

Anyone concerned about "handload vs. factory load" is taking a profoundly shallow view of a subject with vastness of depth. I also did investigations of citizen- and officer-involved shootings as part of my work, and the question of handload/factory wasn't even on the radar at the D.A.'s Office. The action taken was justified, or it wasn't--story over. That's in California, too--not a bastion of conservatism or common sense, by any means.

If the Hairball's heirs and assigns wanted to sue us or the involved citizen, $5K to $15K usually made them go away--and a homeowner's insurance carrier will cut checks of that size without breaking a sweat. Same story from the County Counsel--pay the man, and send in the next case. Net result is Justice Served (V. 2.0.1.), lawyers get a couple sailboat or timeshare payments, BabyMama gets a new big-screen TV, and Cousin Eddie gets spinners on his roach coach. Fade to black, segue to ****** commercial.

[MtGun44]

Al,
In KS, if it is a righteous shoot, no civil action is permitted.

I am sorry to hear that your bosses were such idiots. It is a shame for that sort of
non-support to occur.

Please, take no personal offense, I know that staying near jobs, family and homesteads
is important, but I always wonder how bad the antigun atmosphere would have to be
before I would just move.

Born in CA, moved when young, have had many chances to work there in my career, and
some pretty attractive jobs. Not a moment's sleep lost or even an instant of thought,
just - no way.

A good friend, & college roommate has lived in SD for almost 40 yrs, I have visited him
and other CA friends many, many times, plus business trips - usually 2 -3 times
every year. Lots of nice places in CA, but always happy to head home to the real
world. The political atmosphere eventually becomes oppressive to me.

For your service in stopping a violent felon, Thanks. There are some people that do have an
understanding of the necessity.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

Kind words, MtnGun. Many thanks, sir.

FWIW, I carry my old agency's current authorized factory ammo in my sidearms and rifles when they go in harm's way/on the street. If some fool wants to try nonsense while I'm hunting, he/she runs the risk of stopping a soft-pointed casting or Taracorp SWC. I think Massad Ayoob has a right to be wrong, and I'm glad to see he exercises same to great fullness and depth. And while my iconoclasm is in full flower, I'll add that Fackler makes a lame, sorry excuse for an oracle too.

What I do isn't given as a recommendation. I truly don't think it matters a darn whether a self-defender uses home-crafted castings or factory ammo in his/her firearm. Do what makes you feel most comfortable. In just the 28 years I did cop work (1977-2005) the advances in bullet technology were extensive, and such advances continue. Still, there are no magic bullets--they must be well-placed for best results, and no guarantees exist that incapacitation of an assailant will result. It's all a gamble. I wish the facts were more encouraging, but that's just the way things are.

[Bret4207]

Silly old Al. Trying to interject common sense into an argument of emotion and ego.

[PhantomRider64]

Needless to say this thread got jacked quick,,,

I always have a firearm or more loaded in my home for defense, occasionally I carry when away from home. I mainly grew up im several of the suburbs around Atlanta, Ga. During that time I did not carry but used common sense and some tips from some police friends. 1- stay out of areas you have no business in,,,go around,,,especially at night. 2- be aware and alert of your surroundings,,,look at people,,,opportunistic thugs hate knowing you saw them before they were ready. These methods worked for me for many years and I still use them,,,especially when I carry.

Home load or factory,,,In a life threatening situation I would not care as long as the ammunition works as it should. I however do have factory Hornady ammunition in my .45 Auto. When it is possible for a prosecutor to say that you were out to kill because you were carrying a concealed weapon what difference does the ammunition make?

For me,,,I will defend myself and loved ones with actions or such force that will end the situation,,,period! It may very well happen that if a perp raises a 9mm to me,,,sideways,,,I may very well freeze and not be able to draw my firearm,,,I may take his,,,I may draw mine and the perp runs off,,,I may have to kill him. At this time I do not know what will happen. I practice with my firearms, I hit what I aim at, and I am comfortable with them. In the heat of the moment I cannot say how I might react, I do think about it, and the consequences of my actions, from time to time and always end up at the conclusion that I will not know till the situation arises. I sincerely hope that I never have to find out.

Everyone has their opinion on the different aspects of a defensive shooting, for me it just boils down to keeping myself and family safe.

[9.3X62AL]

Avoidance of potential trouble by re-routing, re-timing, or refusing to travel through dodgy areas is a GREAT strategy for surviving. If the attack never comes, there is a lot less to worry about.

This thread began almost 9 years ago. In my home state (CA), much has changed that makes the landscape significantly more dangerous for decent folks. The effective sentencing measures collectively known as "3 Strikes Statutes" that intended to keep career violent criminals behind bars have been largely vacated. The care of monsters is expensive, and the State of California is cutting its costs for this care through both wholesale release of hardened offenders and by foisting off the custody costs on the counties where the convictions originated. The net effect is that crime rates are rising, because there are more crooks now at large within our society.

What this means to a citizen wishing to keep him/herself safe is that the State has foisted more of the responsibility for citizens staying safe onto the citizens. IMHO, neither the State no the County that I worked for were ever very serious about getting a handle on criminal activity, but the scenario I described above concerning crime prevention has become more obvious with the tsunami of prison releases that have resulted from the realignments and adjustments to prison populations. In short, citizens are obliged to make their property more secure through target-hardening, and to make their lives and safety more assured through strategizing and up-arming. Know also that you will not be shooting people over property losses--those days are gone. The people we will be engaging will not be fleeing--they will be coming at us and likely are in our face, and under the influence of one or more racing fuels/sedatives that anaesthetize them against felt pain and the distractions posed by same. BE SERIOUS--the 38 Special and the 9mm Luger are the "floor" calibers in this venue, and a caliber whose first numeral descriptor has a "4" in it--40, 41, 44, 45--is probably a better option. Use as much gun as you can manage in terms of weight, recoil, and slide manipulation. Your life--and the lives of those you presume to protect--literally depend upon your choices. And--as California shows by its actions--YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. The likelihood of police arriving in time to intervene effectively is very remote. There is too little money--too few assigned officers--and too much area to cover. The government is not serious about public safety--YOU will need to become earnest in your intent to survive criminal depredations.

[JBinMN]

^Absolutely correct^

Not to forget the ones who arrive & then wait by their squad cars...

That really ticked me off when I read about it.


You are really on yur own & not just on the West Coast.

[PhantomRider64]

That is the way I feel. It amazes me the way they let prisoners out to save money. I think if prisoners want to eat, let their family pay for it or bring it to them.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[Tom W.]

To the old original thread.... wasn't a cast TC bullet in the 9mm Luger and the "council" tried to ban it as being inhumane?

[9.3X62AL]

To the old original thread.... wasn't a cast TC bullet in the 9mm Luger and the "council" tried to ban it as being inhumane?

As has been seen with the latest atrocities performed by goblins in gun-free zones, the opinions on arms/ammo/citizen CCW get sprayed all over MSM. The weak-minded and the agenda-driven find a news crew to bleat and bloviate in front of, and the hoplophobic drumbeat continues. In reality, I wonder how many people pay much attention to the drivel being posed and produced by MSM these days.

But that is another question. Like JB in MN, I am disgusted and disappointed in the performance of the Broward County deputies on scene at the most recent school-site shooting. I have A LOT of pointed questions about policy, training, and doctrine at that shop. I will reserve judgement until a better summation of their training regimen comes to light. When 4 deputies make the same decision to pause outside the kill zone, SOMETHING directed that decision. The citizens of Broward County should get answers to these questions.

In the wake of Columbine 1999, my shop instituted a program to install patrol rifles in the patrol cars that roam our county. The principal rationale for that adoption was Columbine, but my county endured the Norco Bank Robbery in 1980 and was close to the North Hollywood Bank Robbery in 1997. Christopher Dorner's serial local atrocities in 2013 kept the idea fresh, as well. It made sense to have rifles in the field, and we have fielded Mini-14s since the late 1980s when our SWAT teams up-armed to select-fire M-16A2, M-4, and Colt SMG systems.

There has been no info regarding level of armament in the hands of the Broward County personnel. In May 1980 when my shop's deputies engaged rifle-toting goblins with revolvers and shotguns, we got our azzes handed to us. If the Broward County people were limited to sidearms and shotguns, I can understand their reluctance to advance into rifle fire. I always had the Rem 870 with deer slugs in my patrol cars, which is sort of half-way between a shotgun and a rifle. And there was always an AR-15 in the trunk, as well.

HELL YES I would have advanced!! That is not even a question. But maybe I was better-trained and better-equipped than the Broward County deputies were. All I know is this--the citizens of my county expected me to hunt armed men that threatened their safety, and I always moved toward the sound of gunfire for 28 years. I would NEVER let my citizens down.

[Tom W.]

My reference was to the original load for the Luger.

The current press is mostly commentary and opinion rather than facts. I'm sure that all of us, if we want opinion or feelings, can form our own.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Shoot em if ya got em.

[Hannibal]

Needless to say this thread got jacked quick,,,

It remained silent in the archives for 8 years until you choose to revive it.

[6bg6ga]

It doesn't make any difference how long this thread was on ice. It was revived and so be it. I personally use either wheel weights or pure lead as my bullet of choice for my 1911's and moderate 9mm loading. As mentioned the diameter of the 45 will be a factor with the size of the hole and if a bone is hit for example you can probably count for some extra expansion and more diameter. I don't worry about expansion simply because there is always another bullet in the chamber.

[trapper9260]

I had read this post some time ago and glad it came back up.To learn and see what some of the things that can happened.It refresh ones mind.