310 Martini Preliminary results.

[smlekid]

sounds like you are getting somewhere with AP70 I need to do some more devolpment with it myself

[Myshot]

smlekid. It does look promising. It burns very clean, and appears to be accurate once you reach the right load. 3.7 grains with the 128 grainer shot 5 inch groups. At 4.5 and 5 grains it tightened right up. I just have to work out which bullet is going to be the most accurate, 122grn non heeled or the 128 grn heeled. I am getting short of both and need to bulk buy one or the other. I really like the 122 grn one best. Either that or get a CBE mould, I have plent of lead, but casting for a 458 win, 38.55, and the cadet will eat up the lead. I will chronogrpah it next trip to the range. That won,t be for 4 weeks as I am off to N.Z. for 3 weeks holiday. See you then Wayne

[Argus]

Hi, this is my first post on this forum. I have had a BSA (NSW) 310 Cadet for 30 years gathering dust since Super ammunition went off the market. I recently acquired a further two 310 Cadet rifles, another BSA (VIC markings) and a Greener, re-chambered for 32-20 (and stamped on the barrel). Both had black bores with no visible rifling. The Greeners action would not open fully as it was gummed up with years of gunk. Stripped, soaked and scrubbed and found a reasonable amount of rifling in both.

I purchased both types of 310 Cadet boolits from Hawkesbury River (they are back in business outside Cessnock in the Hunter Valley). They make a .316" 122gn, and a .323" 128gn heeled boolit. I also purchased a set of Lee .310 Cadet dies. I had about 100 once fired Super cases, and bought 200 new Bertram cases.

Measured a random pull of brass and got about 0.15" variation. Did some internet research and ended up taking a stab and trimmed half of them to 1.08"

Full length sized 100 cases, half Super and half Bertram, and random sampled cases and chambered them in all three rifles. Most fell into the chamber, but some Super were thumb press fit.

Loaded 50 rounds of each boolit into 25 Super/Bertram cases front of 9.5gn of AR2205, and CCI small rife primers and off to the range to just fireform the cases, not to go for group results.

Then the problems started!

Could not chamber half of the rounds (should have checked them before I went!). Some discussion with the gallery revealed two interesting points. The Lee sizing dies are not the right size, and the Hawkesbury River Boolits have a mould seam resulting in an out of round case mouth. Measurements confirmed this.

Back home and off to Jansa, where I bought a 7/8 Simplex .310 Cadet die set off the shelf.

Totally different result, Full length sized the brass, same powder load, same boolits, BUT, this time I took the decaping pin out of the sizing die and pushed the loaded rounds into the die.

Off to the range again, and every round chambered.

Initial results are very encouraging. As recent as today (the second round of tests) have revealed that the rifles do not like the 0.316" boolits. Ten rounds at 50Y both BSA rifles keyholed 50% of the rounds that hit the target (only half hit!). The Greener grouped about 8 inches. The 128gn 0.323" heeled boolits performed very well with 3 inch groups out of the BSA's and 1.5" out of the Greener.

The AR2205 did not burn fully, with a lot of unburnt residue in the brass and in the barrel. Advice from the gallery will be followed and some AP100 powder will be purchased when I have time for round three of the testing. I will drop the 0.316" 122gn and concentrate on the heeled boolits.

Will post the results.

[358wcf]

Great to see another wiping the cobwebs off those old Martini Cadets! What beauties they are, so much fun to shoot, and accurate as well.
In my two "as issued" BSA cadets (310 cal), I use both Bertram cases as well as reformed/trimmed/rim-thinned 32-20 from Buffalo Arms Co. RCBS heeled boolits work just fine over a very mild load of 4.0gr Unique (in my guns). Quiet, no recoil, 2" groups at 50yds with issue sights and OLD EYES. A bit of unburned powder, but no leading at all. Gotta find a way to put a bit of a crimp on those loaded rounds.
I've acquired vintage Parker Hale tang sights for these beauties, and after mounting these, will begin serious load development for better accuracy and a bit more velocity.
Keep us posted, friend, and Good on ya, mate!

358wcf

[Argus]

After my last post and experience I have chucked out the 312" boolits.

I took my Greener 310 Cadet to the range this morning. Although it is chambered 32-20, I shoot 310 Cadet ammunition.

I loaded Hawkesbury River 128g Heeled .323" boolits.

30 rounds each of 14gn ADI AR2205, and 6gn of ADI AP100.

To get some consistency at 50M, and shooting off a bench rest with open sights, and a diopter on my shooting glasses, I shot 10 rounds 2205, followed by 10 rounds AP100. I then cleaned the rifle, then reversed the order and shot 10 rounds AP100, followed by 10 rounds 2205. I did this twice and I could not pick the difference between the powder loads in group diameter and placing on the target.

The first group in each bracket was tighter (1.5" to 2") than the second (2" to 3"), which I put down to perhaps barrel fouling. Having said that, two wipes with a solvent patch, and two with a clean dry patch left the last patch with just a smudge. AR2205 did leave a lot of unburnt residue on the bench.

I shot the last 10 rounds of each powder alternately at two separate targets with a 2-3" group.

So, the Jury is out on the choice of powder, if I get time I will repeat exactly the same test with my two BSA 310 Cadets next week and see if I get the same results.

[Argus]

Repeated the tests this afternoon using my two 310 BSA Cadets. Similar results, but I am going to discount them and try again next week. Conditions today were blowing a gale and very gusty.

Vertical separation was around 2", but horizontal was 5-6"

[C1PNR]

I unfortunately have only one .310 Cadet. The bore slugged .321, and if that is the norm, as I'm led to believe, those .316 diameter boolits will probably give you nothing but grief.

I'm watching your trials with much interest. Although the nomenclature on your powder differs, I can probably find an equivalent here in Idaho.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Argus]

Hi C1PNR, As I have detailed earlier in the posts, .316 boolits fly wild out of each of my three 310 rifles. If I hit the target at all, half of them keyholed.

A good reference site is www.adi-powders.com.au. This details loads for a wide range of boolits for all calibers, and has a powder equivalent chart.

If the weather is OK I will take my 310s back to the range this Sunday and continue the trials.

[Argus]

Here are a couple of pictures of the Hawkesbury River 128gn Blackhawk heeled 0.323 dia 310 Cadet Boolits. In picture 1, the boolit on the right is one that I slugged the barrel with. The black coating is a lube impregnated substance put on by the manufacturer. I shoot them dry, out of the box.

Being five grooves and lands I took five measurements and averaged them out to be 0.320"

[Argus]

Off to the Range today to continue the tests. It was pouring rain so no chronometer.

I shot a NSW marked BSA .310 Cadet, and a VIC marked BSA .310 Cadet. Only the NSW rifle results are reported here as the VIC marked rifle did not perform anywhere near the NSW with the loads I used. The boolits are the HR 128gn heeled boolits pictured in my earlier post.

I feel that the results were influenced by the rain and wind, but they show good progress.

First target is 5.5gn of ADI AP100. 10 rounds at 50M. Rounds all over the place.
As a reference, the black is 195mm or 7 3/4 inches in diameter.




The second target 6gn of ADI AP100, 10 rounds at 50M. The group is tightening up, but I suspect some wind spread. (Pic is a bit out of focus!)




This final target is 6.5gn of ADI AP100, 10 rounds at 50M. Now they are pulling together! (The flyer in the 8 ring was my fault) As a reference the 9-ring is 95mm or 3 3/4 inches in diameter.



I will take these loads to an indoor range and repeat the tests as I am certain that the weather conditions influenced the results.

The same loads in my VIC marked BSA .310 Cadet, and my Greener 310 (chambered 32-20) give very poor results.

[linus]

I was just going through 310 Cadet posts, and when I hit on this one I saw it was about exactly what I wanted to report. I am fortunate to have two Martini Cadets. One was rechambered to 32-20, and i shoot a custom 100gr pill in it sized to .318. The other was not rechambered, so i obtained a mold for CBE's 120 gr bullet. Cnsiering the heel of the bullet is about .310 it was just a matter of time before I realized I could seat that bullet in the 32-20 case. Presto! It shoots like a house afire. I use 6.5gr AA9 in the 32-20 and 5.0gr AA9 in the 310. For the 310 I cast the CBE bullet soft at 1:50 or even just pure Pb. I found harder bullets leaded the bore. If anyone knows how to thin the rim on 32-20s to make cases for the 310 without using a lathe, I would like to hear about it. I lube the 120gr bullets with liquid Alox slightly diluted with 90% isopropyl alcohol applied to the lube groove with a pipe cleaner. I am always looking for faster, cleaner and more efficient ways to lube these guys.
Jim

[kscop]

The thing about 32-20 cadet rifles is that while they were rechambered for 32-20, the bore is still for the .310, meaning that the larger heeled bullet is needed.

I found with my 32-20 that if I use once-fired, or fire formed 32-20 brass that has conformed to my chamber, I can thumb seat the bullet and end up with a 32-20 that is 1.72 inches long (spec is about 1.58 as I recall) and that still chambers fine.

That gives me a bit more case volume so I can get more velocity with less pressure.

I use the RCBS 310-120-RN heeled bullet and 11.1g of 4227. That load gets me about 1500fps and well within pressure specs. Bullet cast from hard alloy and water quenched, LLA lubed, small pistol magnum primer. It's a shooter!

By the way, I just tumble lube the bullets; works fine with any cast bullet and haven't had a leading issue. I just dump the bullets in an old tupperware container, squirt in some LLA and toss them around until coated. Drop them on a rag, spread out to dry and done. easy peasy


Also have a load using 6.7g of Blue Dot. Works out to about 1300 fps and 13000 PSI. A fund round for sure

Gotta love the cadet rifles..

I just bit the bullet so to speak and bought .310 brass for my .310..

[kscop]

FUN round, not fund..
fat fingers..