loading for the 43 Mauser/ 11mm Mauser

[Hackleback]

I have a chance to buy a pristine (almost too pristine to be true) 71/84 Mauser rifle. Don't know anything about reloading for it. I do know it is a BP round and the bore should be 43 cal (+-) will slug. What about brass? can it be formed from 45-70 or some other avalible brass or will I need to buy expensive imported brass to reload. Any help would be useful.

Thank you.

[Frank46]

Get a copy of the midway catalog, I believe that they have 43 mauser brass available. Lyman does make one mold for the 43 mauser. Or you could do a web search and see what comes up. Midway might have bertram brass in that caliber. Don't know what it will cost though. Frank

[Buckshot]

.................Graf & Midway both carry Bertram brass for the 43 Mauser. Also check Buffalo Arms. They fabricate it from 348 Winchester. It's less expensive and works just as well. Go to Lee or CH-4D for the dies.

For load data it's real difficult 8), use 45-70 data for the Trapdoor Springfield for comparable boolit wieghts. It's that simple.

Lyman and RCBS both make a mould for the 43 Mauser. You can also use a 370gr mould for the 43 Spanish (.439") and paper patch it to .446" (nominal M71/84 groove). You should slug the barrel of your new repeater first to be sure of what you need.

Lyman also makes 2 moulds that will work, but are intended for the Whitworth and Volunteer muzzle loaders. Both are similar Loverin designs being FNPB's. One for the Whitworth is 475grs and the other is 450. They drop at about .452". Lube-size to .451" and then run them up through a .446" push through, or whatever the loaded case will allow in your rifle's chamber.

Finally, you should be aware that many of these old BPCR's had throats and chambers so tight as to almost preclude the use of groove+ bullet OD's. They depended upon the BP charge to upset the boresized slug into the grooves.

I have a 1871 and a M71/84 Repeater. and both are accurate fun to shoot rifles.

....................Buckshot

[Junior1942]

Anybody got a link to one of these rifles? I'd like to see what they look like.

[trooperdan]

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Germany/71-84Mau.htm

[Urny]

Nice site, trooperdan, one not in my milsurp non-dealer folder.

[Hackleback]

Reform from 348 win., just what I wanted to hear! Spending $40/20 pcs of brass just kills me (for Bertran, Bell....). Sweet looking rifle, cromed/very bright bolt, stacking hook... and a very blonde stock. Looks like it was made yesterday (no pitting) with a few handling marks. I think I will persue this further.

Thanks for the info.

[trooperdan]

Interestingly, the "new" Old Western Scrounger" is selling M1871/84 parts guns for $40. They also have the pre-1888 commission rifles at 12 for $200! Gauranteed to be incomplete, rusty and unbelievably filthy! They are in Martinsburgh WV now and I suspect are owned by Gibbs.

http://ows-ammo.com/catalog/

I have two of the 71/84's, one sporterized and one needing a mag spring and follower. I'm near biting on a couple of their parts guns, just can't resist an opportunity to rehabilitate an old warrior!

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Hello Hackleback. I too have one of those pristine 71/84s and have shot it occasionally for many years. The CH4D dies and shellholders work fine and the shellholder will let you prime on a press priming system. The barrel on mine was stamped with the groove diameter (10.15mm, I believe) and it was dead on at .446". The Rcbs 43-370-fn is the proper mould and wheel weights shoot well in the 1450-1500fps range with 77 grains 3f goex. Imr 4227 works very well too with a smokeless lube. I use a 1/2 square of toilet paper wad with the 4227. I am using BELL basic brass cases and despite many, many reloads have not lost a case. Maybe they are still available if you search, including Dixie. Basic brass forms easily in the F/L die but needs shortened. I only neck size partially, bell the case very slightly for seating and do not crimp. I set loaded OAL at 3.02". Bell cases will last long and give great results. I have also patched .432 240 grain slugs up a little to shoot as express type loads with acceptable accuracy as the throat will swage them down in shooting. My best is 3" at 100yards off sandbags. I replaced the front sight with a taller one and shoot off the 250 meter leaf. The rifle is a wonderful weapon. Goods shooting.

[Buckshot]

Reform from 348 win., just what I wanted to hear! Spending $40/20 pcs of brass just kills me (for Bertran, Bell....). Sweet looking rifle, cromed/very bright bolt, stacking hook... and a very blonde stock. Looks like it was made yesterday (no pitting) with a few handling marks. I think I will persue this further.

Thanks for the info.

...........I'm not suggesting all you have to do is run a 348 WInchester up into a 43 Mauser dies by any means! T'ain't that simple, by a long shot. However Buffalo Arms uses them as basic brass to start with. There is substantial work involved. It's not like making 303 Brit into 30-40 Krag or 30-06 into 35 Whelen.

I'm a bit jaded on brass prices and the 'on sale' price for 43 Spanish and 43 Mauser at $32/20 isn't too bad. Not when you've paid $108/20 for 577-450!

.................Buckshot

[Frank46]

OUCH, oh well there goes the beer money. Frank

[Scotty]

What about 577-450 reformed from CBC 24 gauge brass shells for $30/25....



Scotty,

[Buckshot]

What about 577-450 reformed from CBC 24 gauge brass shells for $30/25....



Scotty,

That is certainly a friendly price and no doubt. However, it wasn't an option when I was accumilating brass for my Martini. I've heard people badmouth Bertram on some stuff before, but I have zero issues with the 577-450 brass. I have a couple lots of 20 cases with well over 30 firings on'em and not a whimper. I've got about 80 turned cases from the old Red Willow Armory, but I'm afraid to use'em 8)

Longevity would be my only concern with eh converted shotshells. However I also use them for a Snider and the Comblain and they appear to be tough enough so long as no major resizing is done.

..............Buckshot

[rocklock]

Here's some results with cast boolits and smokeless powder...

http://kneiper.tripod.com/Range3-27.htm

[trooperdan]

Buffalo Arms muct have dropped their price; I just ordered 50 .43 Mauser cases reformed from .358 Win (I believe ) for $44 plus shipping. He also said that Jamison brass is supposed to be on the market soon. They will be making new brass in this caliber as well as 577/450 MH at a significant savings over todays prices.

[Huffmanite]

Hi, very new to this forum. Trackofthewolf.com has 43 Spanish brass (from 348Win) for 1.35 each, but not 43 Mauser. 40 years ago a buddy and I both bought 43 Spanish rolling blocks, but couldn't find any ammo. Found 385 grain bullet 43 Mauser ammo factory made in Canada specifically for 1871 Mauser. Desperate to shoot our RBs, we decided to shoot the 43Mauser ammo. Hooked up a lanyard and put about 10 rounds thru each rifle. Used the fireformed cases to reload. I fired about 60 rounds of 43 Mauser in my RB back then.

[guninhand]

I was shooting my 71/84 today and had a bad experience. Previously I had fired a 340 grain bullet from a Rapine mold using Blue angel lube and 30 grs IMR 3031 and got pretty good results at 100yds.

I got a pile of loose FFg for free a while ago and I don't recall the manufacturer (I scooped the free stuff from a drum). I thought it would be a hoot to try the BP so I loaded up rounds using Bell, Bertram and Dominion brass.

I had the bullets lubed with SPG, however the grooves on the bullet don't really hold a lot of lube. The only BP experience I had previous to this was with a Ruger Old Army revolver where I put gobs of Cirsco over the charge holes.

To make a long story short, after 15 rounds I had a case failure. The load was 77 grains of FFg and it appears the reason for failure was BP fouling that built up enough to be a bore obstruction after just 15 rounds.

I say this because when I went to clean the gun I couldn't push a patched 40 cal jag down the bore I had to tap the end of the cleaning rod with a mallet. I'm guessing there was insufficent lube to keep the fouling soft. The Dominion case, while probably made in the '40s or 50s, had only been fired once before, i.e. the factory stuffings. It didn't separate in two parts like with head space problems but had a gap very close to the base going about half around the circumference, i.e. the blowout was not lengthwise.

While reloading the cases I had touched them to a vibrating tumbler to settle the BP down, then inserted a PVC wad ( about 0.22 in thick)

Previous to this I had shot a bunch of 777ffg in 45 Colt cases in other guns and had good results using a PVC wad between the 777 and bullet base, and this is what I had for a wad in the failed case, thinking that what worked for 777 would work for BP.

Accuracy was very poor, 7 inches at 50 yds, from the very start.

Yeah, it's embrassing too.

[trooperdan]

I haven't researched this at all, this is just "off the top of my head" but is it possible your Dominon brass had mercuric primer in it? I don't recall when factories switched from the mercury fulminate priming material but I think some were still using it in the 40's. Mercury compounds made the brass brittle, it wasn't much of a problem in the early days using black powder as the fouling somewhat protected the case from the mercury but when smokeless came in mercury was a serious problem.

[Bigjohn]

I was shooting my 71/84 today and had a bad experience. Previously I had fired a 340 grain bullet from a Rapine mold using Blue angel lube and 30 grs IMR 3031 and got pretty good results at 100yds.

I got a pile of loose FFg for free a while ago and I don't recall the manufacturer (I scooped the free stuff from a drum). I thought it would be a hoot to try the BP so I loaded up rounds using Bell, Bertram and Dominion brass.

I had the bullets lubed with SPG, however the grooves on the bullet don't really hold a lot of lube. The only BP experience I had previous to this was with a Ruger Old Army revolver where I put gobs of Cirsco over the charge holes.

To make a long story short, after 15 rounds I had a case failure. The load was 77 grains of FFg and it appears the reason for failure was BP fouling that built up enough to be a bore obstruction after just 15 rounds.

I say this because when I went to clean the gun I couldn't push a patched 40 cal jag down the bore I had to tap the end of the cleaning rod with a mallet. I'm guessing there was insufficent lube to keep the fouling soft. The Dominion case, while probably made in the '40s or 50s, had only been fired once before, i.e. the factory stuffings. It didn't separate in two parts like with head space problems but had a gap very close to the base going about half around the circumference, i.e. the blowout was not lengthwise.

While reloading the cases I had touched them to a vibrating tumbler to settle the BP down, then inserted a PVC wad ( about 0.22 in thick)

Previous to this I had shot a bunch of 777ffg in 45 Colt cases in other guns and had good results using a PVC wad between the 777 and bullet base, and this is what I had for a wad in the failed case, thinking that what worked for 777 would work for BP.

Accuracy was very poor, 7 inches at 50 yds, from the very start.

Yeah, it's embrassing too.

There are a lot of cast projectile designs out there on the market which will not hold enough lube in their grooves to keep Black powder fouling soft. One option is to place a thin card wad (punched from milk carton) over the powder then drop in a 'Pea' sized amount of lube in before seating the projectile.
The second option is to swab the barrel between shots. The third would be to invest in a mold for a more suitable projectile.

[wills]

http://www.buffaloarms.com/search.ht...rchterm=ribbon