Why paper patch?

[delmar]

I have started to read a bit about paper patching, but a lot of the threads seem to start out with a lot of information about how to and don't seem to start with why to. So, my question is ... What are the main reasons for paper patching?

[pdawg_shooter]

With paper patching you can get results equal to, or in some cases better than, jacketed loads. With paper you can load pure lead up to around 2200fps for a top performing hunting load. An alloy of 12.0/12.5 BHN can go to 2600fps or so and 16.0 to 3000fps or better. Try that with a naked bullet.

[docone31]

Ditto, especially on the better performance than jacketeds.

[jh45gun]

So what is the BHN again for WW? Just wondering how fast you can push WW bullets as WW is all I use for my cast bullets except I use pure lead for my Muzzle Loader projectiles.

[pdawg_shooter]

WWs, after you let them age for a week or so will go 10.0/12.5 or so. They do vary a lot. If you water drop or heat treat them they will go over 25. No top end for that!

[Maven]

An additional reason is curiosity and the love of experimentation. Then too, and I admit this is a bit of a reach,, you may have an idle or unused mold in your collection that casts too small for any of your rifles, but not so small that it couldn't be used to cast bullets that you can paper patch to fit at least one of your rifles.

[delmar]

does paper patch make "leading" a non issue?

[docone31]

It gets the lead out.

[delmar]

It gets the lead out.

My only weapon is a .45 acp
How practical would it be to get some 44 bullets, paper patch them, and fire a few when lead starts to show up in my barrel?

Come to think of it, I might even play with paper patching my glue stick bullets!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...t=17577&page=8

[docone31]

I do not believe it would be practical at all.
I use jacketeds in this application.

[delmar]

I do not believe it would be practical at all.
I use jacketeds in this application.

I know I'm asking question out of ignorance, but why would it not be practical? Do jacketed bullets get the lead out? Or do you mean to say that you would not recommend using lead bullets in a .45 acp?

[bcp477]

There are at least a couple of reasons why this would not be practical. One, paper-patched cartridges tend not to be completely compatible with auto-loading firearms (the patches tend to be damaged by movement in the magazine and feeding, etc.). Two, it isn't as simple as wrapping paper around a bullet....and loading it into a cartridge. The final diameter of the patched bullet needs to be precisely right. For the majority of guns, the final diameter should be somewhere in the range of groove diameter to .001" over that, for best results (and this varies somewhat - gun to gun). So, paper-patchers start with bullets undersized for the barrel, which allows for the thickness of the paper used. Simply wrapping a .45 bullet would result in an OVER-sized projectile...and you'd get no accuracy. As for the barrel polishing aspects of paper patches (which do help to remove fouling and polish the bore)....it is not worth it to adopt paper- patching, with all of the steps and experimentation involved....just to clean your bore. Just clean your bore the old-fashioned way. There is no problem with shooting cast (plain lead) bullets in your .45 ACP...ones of the right design and weight. Loads for the .45 ACP using un-jacketed bullets are pretty slow, comparatively speaking (heck, the standard 230 gr. ball military load, using jacketed bullets, was only about 900 fps, anyway). You certainly can find a load, using suitable cast bullets, that will not lead your bore....if shooting cast (un-jacketed) bullets is what you're after.

By the way, ".44" bullets, if you mean handgun bullets, are not .44" in diameter. I believe that the standard dia. for these is something like .430" (someone correct me if I am off on that - handguns are not my area of interest). Your .45 ACP fires bullets of about .458" in dia., in actuality. That is another technical aspect that you'd have to get into, if you chose to try paper-patching.

[delmar]

There are at least a couple of reasons why this would not be practical. One, paper-patched cartridges tend not to be completely compatible with auto-loading firearms (the patches tend to be damaged by movement in the magazine and feeding, etc.).

I see.

Two, it isn't as simple as wrapping paper around a bullet....and loading it into a cartridge. The final diameter of the patched bullet needs to be precisely right.

Yes, that is why I asked about paper patching .44 bullets for the .45

For the majority of guns, the final diameter should be somewhere in the range of groove diameter to .001" over that, for best results (and this varies somewhat - gun to gun). So, paper-patchers start with bullets undersized for the barrel, which allows for the thickness of the paper used. Simply wrapping a .45 bullet would result in an OVER-sized projectile...and you'd get no accuracy. As for the barrel polishing aspects of paper patches (which do help to remove fouling and polish the bore)....it is not worth it to adopt paper- patching, with all of the steps and experimentation involved....just to clean your bore. Just clean your bore the old-fashioned way. There is no problem with shooting cast (plain lead) bullets in your .45 ACP...ones of the right design and weight. Loads for the .45 ACP using un-jacketed bullets are pretty slow, comparatively speaking (heck, the standard 230 gr. ball military load, using jacketed bullets, was only about 900 fps, anyway). You certainly can find a load, using suitable cast bullets, that will not lead your bore....if shooting cast (un-jacketed) bullets is what you're after.

It might be what I'm after. That's why I'm asking all kinds of questions. I hope I'm not being too annoying!

[docone31]

My experience with ACP, they are picky on OAL, and casting shape.
My experience with paper patching, you can load them through a magazine. I do it with my rifles. I go slowly on loading though. The cycleing speed of the ACP, paper on the outside of the casting can cause issues without all the sizing, etc.
Paper patching is an art. Here there are two distinct schools. That is without the differences between black powder and smokeless.
If it were a revolver, I would say it might be worth the try. However, not just for scrubbing the barrel. Choreboy, Hoppes #9 and some elbow grease does real well.
My patched loads, after deleading the bore, did indeed get the rest out. It was a slow process though. When I had fouling in the barrel, it was just a waste of paper and time. I had to physically remove the residual.
Once the bore is "shiney", it is remarkebly easy to clean it after firing paper. I also highly reccomend paper patching in rifles. Once I tried it, I was hooked. However, I spent months "dialing" it in. If I had not been given an entrance on my calibers, I would still be thinking on it today.
With my ACPs, and revolvers, I make my lube, cast really hard castings that are sized to fit. I get no leading at the range. I got my wife a RaceGun, and she is still "weak handed" with it. She fires a lot at a time. Stove pipes, jams, etc. She is getting better. The loads do not lead when they fire though. When I fire it, I get no issues. She is learning to control the pistol.
In my opinion, leading is a combination of sizing and lube. I would look at that for the ACP definately before attempting patching for it.
I fire water dropped wheel weight, sized at .451, 10gns of Blue Dot. Dirty as all get out, cleans right up. No leading.

[jh45gun]

WWs, after you let them age for a week or so will go 10.0/12.5 or so. They do vary a lot. If you water drop or heat treat them they will go over 25. No top end for that!

I would keep them air cooled

[delmar]

My experience with ACP, they are picky on OAL, and casting shape.
My experience with paper patching, you can load them through a magazine. I do it with my rifles. I go slowly on loading though. The cycleing speed of the ACP, paper on the outside of the casting can cause issues without all the sizing, etc.
Paper patching is an art. Here there are two distinct schools. That is without the differences between black powder and smokeless.
If it were a revolver, I would say it might be worth the try. However, not just for scrubbing the barrel. Choreboy, Hoppes #9 and some elbow grease does real well.
My patched loads, after deleading the bore, did indeed get the rest out. It was a slow process though. When I had fouling in the barrel, it was just a waste of paper and time. I had to physically remove the residual.
Once the bore is "shiney", it is remarkebly easy to clean it after firing paper. I also highly reccomend paper patching in rifles. Once I tried it, I was hooked. However, I spent months "dialing" it in. If I had not been given an entrance on my calibers, I would still be thinking on it today.
With my ACPs, and revolvers, I make my lube, cast really hard castings that are sized to fit. I get no leading at the range. I got my wife a RaceGun, and she is still "weak handed" with it. She fires a lot at a time. Stove pipes, jams, etc. She is getting better. The loads do not lead when they fire though. When I fire it, I get no issues. She is learning to control the pistol.
In my opinion, leading is a combination of sizing and lube. I would look at that for the ACP definately before attempting patching for it.
I fire water dropped wheel weight, sized at .451, 10gns of Blue Dot. Dirty as all get out, cleans right up. No leading.

Does being pick about OAL make it hard to paper patch? That is to say if you paper patch is it hard to be precise on OAL?

[docone31]

No. You can control patched castings as any other.

[Spector]

I have been paper patching for my Glock 31/30 for several months now.

I have had my best luck using the Lee 230 grain trucated cone bullet. I drop them into water from the mold. It is easy patch them when I use Albanene paper, but it is difficult to locate and I want to find another paper to use. I have tried a cheaper tracing paper I got at Office Depot. It works, but is not as tough a paper as I'd like.

I tried teflon tape, but it tore up trying to load it in the case. I tried to pick the remnants of the tape off the bullet and it was a real fight. I don't think it would release well from the bullet anyway even it it had held up. I was just looking for something waterproof.

I size the lead bullet to .451''. Patch it and fold the paper under the bullet. I do not twist a tail. I roll the wet bullet across a burner on our ceramic top stove until it is dry. I twist the base of the bullet on the burner and it really flattens the folded under patch. Air drying overnight may be just as good, but I'm always impatient. Then I apply Johnson Paste Wax to the patch and dry them again. Then I push them through a Lee .452'' sizing die.

I have been using WCC cases, WIN primers and 5.7 grains of WIN 231. They feed fine in my Glock. No leading.

Run the paper down the nose far enough so you don't have problems feeding the bullet from the magazine into the chamber. I have not had one misfeed in close to 100 rounds. It gets decent accuracy at 25 yards.

I fired a lead/tin soft bullet paper patched into milk jugs of water. It was from a Lyman mould I believe the fellow sent it off to have hollow pointed. It was around 200 grains. It stopped in the 4th jug and the petals broke off the bullet when it mushroomed. Think I need a slightly harder bullet or a slower velocity. NO leading though.

The biggest problem I see is the vulnerability of the paper patch to water. I fall down a lot when I wade fish so I don't think I'll carry a paper patched self-defence load in the summer months, but in the winter months I think it would work fine with a soft lead hollow point bullet.

I'm wanting to try it with the Lee 255 grain RF bullet. I've fired a lot of those through my Glock and they feed well. I'd like to hollow point a few of them and try to get them down to around 235 grains.

The trucated cone bullet was easier to patch than the round nose hollow point for some reason and the trucated cone bullet is the tumble lube design.

I have more experimenting to do later, but so far I am satisfied with my efforts. I'm wanting to try some soft lead sized at .454''. I slugged the throat on my Glock............Mike

[delmar]

I believe these might well be the worlds first paper patch plastic bullets!

The second photo shows what they look like when they come out of my bullet trap. I peeled the other two to show how well the bullet comes through the process.

By the way... Boy is my barrel clean!

[docone31]

Now, that is amazing!
I love it.