231 for .38 SPL what are your loads.

[336A]

At the moment I've only used Unique for all my .38 SPl loads. However I have been reading a lot of good things about 231. So my questions are will 231 give me velocities that are comparableble to Unique with cast bullets? Also is it true that in general it tends to be more accurate than Unique with cast bullets as well? Any and all advice on which loads have given good performance for you with 231 are very welcome as well. I'm looking for a good standard load of about 850fps with 158gr SWC and a good +P load with the same bullet.

[Rocky Raab]

W231 (or HP38, the same powder) are excellent in the 38 Special. I can't speak to accuracy, as that can be gun-dependent. But for loads, Hodgdon shows 3.1 to 3.7 with a 158LSWC at 834 fps. They don't show a +P load with any lead bullets. Lyman shows regular loads from 3.5 to 4.7 with a 155LSWC at up to 885 fps, and a +P load of 5.0 at 934 fps.

In my own guns, 4.5 gets me very close to the 850 fps you seek. It's a delightful load, and seems to produce a little less lube smoke than Unique does.

[felix]

Powders are never the same unless purchased in the same container, and even then may not be the same over time based upon storage conditions, like being subjected to variable temperature and vibratory conditions. Besides that, various lots can be and are made by different chemical companies. In particular is WW231 versus HP38. These two powders are for the same application arena, yes, but that is all you can say for sure via application notes, like from reloading manuals. For example, several large lots of HP38 were made in Scotland, versus the US for many lots of WW231. ... felix

[Wayne Dobbs]

I've used 4.0 of 231 with a 158 SWC for many years and many thousands of rounds. It's accurate and easy on the hardware. Brian Pearce wrote a .38 Special article a couple of years ago in which he used 4.5 231 with the 358429 Keith SWC for excellent accuracy and about 850 fps.

There may have been separate production of 231 and HP38 years ago, but all the new stuff is made in St. Marks, FL and the only difference is the packaging. Also note that Hodgdon (HP38 brand) is now distributing Winchester powders for the big W. There are also a couple of the other rifle powders that are the same between the two brands.

[Rocky Raab]

Felix, may I ask what is your source for the "Made in Scotland" info? And when that might have been?

My own source tells me that HP-38 is and has always been repackaged W231, and all of it is made in the Olin plant at St Marks (as Wayne just said).

[PDshooter]

I've used 4.0 of 231 with a 158 SWC ........+1

[Alchemist]

I've also used WW231 at a little over 4 grains (I won't say how much....work your loads up on your own for safety's sake) with the 158 swc's. Cleaner burning than Unique in my experience with .38 Spl's.

[missionary5155]

Good evening
My general purpose 38 sp load is a 158 SWC with 4 grains 231 . My CC load is 5 grains with a 150 grain near pure lead SWC in my 5 shot Rossi. This is powder I "Salvaged" from som 12 guage shotshells as powder is not "Available" here in the Sunny South.

[waco]

have not tried 231 in the .38
but 3.2 titegroup with the 158 cast is a tack driver in my .357
waco

[daleraby]

Got a Zip-Lock Baggie full of 160 grain LRN bullets from the old Green Bay Bullets company. The original box has long since disintegrated, but if memory serves, they were sized to .358. I loaded them into Remington nickel cases atop 3.5 grains of 231... the lowest charge listed for this type of bullet in the Lyman 50th edition manual... with a Remington 1 1/2 (small pistol standard) primer.

Lyman's manual lists velocity for this load at 675 FPS, which is about what I was looking for in the antique(s) I am shooting. The gun I used was a century-old Colt Police Positive Special with fixed sights and a 4" barrel.

I got a legitimate three-shot two-inch group from seven yards shooting offhand centered on my target. This kind of surprised me, given past experience with those itty-bitty non-adjustable sights and my 67-year-old fuzzy-image eyeballs. I admit to using reader's glasses, but this was a very nice group in my opinion.

The load was pleasant to shoot and should be more than adequate for smallish pests and empty soda cans. I used to carry this revolver on my right hip when I worked the gun shop along with another Colt Police Positive Special in the same caliber on the left hip both loaded with Hornady Critical Defense ammo... which they both shot a bit low, the sights being regulated for heavier bullets at lower velocities.

It would be highly unusual for someone like me to take a gun like this into martial service these days, but it's nice to be able to take an old war horse out of the pasture once in a while. They've still got a few good shots left in 'em... if I can do my part.

[scattershot]

Felix, may I ask what is your source for the "Made in Scotland" info? And when that might have been?

My own source tells me that HP-38 is and has always been repackaged W231, and all of it is made in the Olin plant at St Marks (as Wayne just said).

Everything I have read says that the powders come from the same hopper and are put into different bottles.

[LabGuy]

Everything I have read says that the powders come from the same hopper and are put into different bottles.

I once had lot number sticker fall off a jug of powder. I emailed the lot number to Hodgon, they told me it was from HP-38 or Win 231, same lot different bottles. I taped it back onto my 8 pound container of HP-38.

[10x]

Everything I have read says that the powders come from the same hopper and are put into different bottles.

With trade labels. Like the old hardware store brand shotguns. Most came off the same assembly line and got stamped with trade names...

[cheese1566]

W231 (and HP38) is the only powder I go to for 38's, 9mm, 45ACP, and 40SW.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

If you see some Accurate No. 5, grab it!

DG

[YoungGun88]

Hey all
So I loaded up some 38Spl for my snubby(1.7” barrel hammerless) the other day. As a good boy should when starting with a new load, I followed the manual's recommendation of starting load: 4grs of 231, when over a JSP 140gr boolit.
Woof, talk about a fireball! Snappy too. Wanted to inquire if reducing the load a bit for this small barrel might be useful. Recommendations requested

[skeettx]

3.1 of 231 is the favorite target load

[poppy42]

Powders are never the same unless purchased in the same container, and even then may not be the same over time based upon storage conditions, like being subjected to variable temperature and vibratory conditions. Besides that, various lots can be and are made by different chemical companies. In particular is WW231 versus HP38. These two powders are for the same application arena, yes, but that is all you can say for sure via application notes, like from reloading manuals. For example, several large lots of HP38 were made in Scotland, versus the US for many lots of WW231. ... felix

Hp38 and win 231 are the exact same powder! They are often made at the same time in the same vat the only difference is the label! I’ve got this straight from Hodgdon! Don’t ask how but I’ve seen the proof. The same goes for 296 and h10, high gun and tite group! Absolutely no difference other than the labels, and as you said the lot to lot difference. But lot to lot difference dose not effect load data only your loads

[JoeJames]

I have posted this before but part of it are the results from different revolvers.

[rintinglen]

HP-38 originated as Hodgdon's name for out-of-spec 231 purchased from Saint Marks. Originally, they were different, but close in burning rate, with the HP-38 being outside the 5% tolerance range Winchester had, either slower or faster burning. If a given lot was slower by >2.5% of the desired burning rate or faster by 2.5%, Winchester rejected it. Rather than dumping the lot back into the acetone bath and starting over, the manufacturer sold the non-standard powder to Hodgdon as HP-38.

This is why you see different loads for them in pre-2006 loading manuals, e.g. the 1980's Lyman 3rd CBH shows in the 38 special, 358-91 load file, 4.6 grains of 231 is listed as giving lower pressure at essentially the same velocity as the HP-38 load develops with 4.1 grains of powder.

Since ~2006, they have been identical, prepared at the same time and in the same vats, differing only in the packaging, as several have noted.