What Are Your Favorite Bullet Lubes For Pistol Loads, Plain Base And Gas Checked. With Info On Bull Shops' Speed Green , And Lbt Blue The Focus But Not The Only Intrest. I Have No Intrest In Makeing My Own. I Live In Northern California And Summer Temps Get Into The Tripple Digets, With Lows Being In The Mid To Low 30s' .
Last edited by Blacktail 8541; 02-06-2006 at 12:49 AM. Reason: SPELLING
I have used NRA mix of Alox and Beeswax since E.H. Harrison developed it. I have done both home-mix and store bought. Here is an address that has the best price on Alox I have seen:
http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html
For black powder cartridge rifles and schuetzen use, I use Emmert's Home Mix.
Dale53
Dale
He's one of our members, Lars45. He has fair prices.
Joe
I live in Tucson Az. and use LBT Blue since 83 or84 in .256 win mag,.357 Mag& Harret(14) .32mag .30 30 ..3030 is rifle rest are T.C.`s 10 with scopes.No leading to speak of,and highest vlosity at coke can accurate loads.5 out of 5 at 100yds. I use the slower powers and some boolets have gas checks
Hi, email me your address to idahobronco@aol.com and I'll send you a free sample to try. I make an Alox lube that should work for all pistol loads and also a High Speed lube with Carnauba. It does require some heat to get it to flow.
Glenn.
Originally Posted by Blacktail 8541
Last edited by lar45; 02-06-2006 at 02:25 AM.
LBT Blue is good for the higher speeds. LBT Magnum is good for revolvers, etc. Alox and beeswax is also good.
Lar makes good lubes but I will tell you a secret! Lar buys maker's mark whiskey to get his carnauba wax and I won't tell how many bottles he goes through---HEE HEE.
That Was Great 44man , I Like His Secret.
Blacktail,
Pistol lube? You have outlined your temperature criteria, but how do you prefer to shoot? Fast powders up to 1000 fps? Balls to the wall? Casual plinking or fanning a cylinder? Helps in the recommendation.
When I buy lube, I really like Thompson Blue Angel.
My Shooting Pace Is Not Furious , But Substained At About 100 To About 125 Per Hour. Once In A While I Will Shoot Faster. Most Of My Pistol Loads Are Just Below Max With Little Gun Powder In , 357mag, 41 Mag, 44 Mag And 45 Colt Ruger Levels. The Only Powders Other Than Little Gun Is Universal Clays And Aa#5 For The 45 Acp And 45 Colt. These Last Two Are The Only Guns Used For Light Loads, And Not A Whole Lot At That. When A Gun Gets Real Warm I Let It Cool While I Shoot Another.
Kinda hard to read. Mind loosing some caps? You're confusing the old farts. (Me)
Blacktail,
Because of everything you mention, you are placing the highest demands on a bullet lube. We never even talked about any of your bullet designs. Lighter bullets tend to carry much less lube and they too require more even in the best of shooting conditions.
Even if you aren't requiring it all the time, you need it when you do. Add to this that I have no way to determine bore conditions of your guns and what you might get in the future. All of this plus it must be commercially made.
Just like the old commercial that "IF it REALLY has to be there over night, .......... I would recommend Bullshop's Speed Green lube with some modification. His full synthetic is probably overkill for most pistols when you don't need it, but it's there when you do. I have found no adverse "accuracy" effects on the batch I am using and I have heated things up pretty well in a wheeler. And right now I am using a softer mix too.
But if you decide to order it from him, I would buy some Carnuba flakes and send it up to him asking that he use that as a hardener. The mix I made myself would be entirely too soft to stay in wide groove bullet designs during handling in warm weather when all lubes with Bees wax are prone to soften. If he hardens it, you will then probably need a heater. But you should have the best lube for high heat, high velocity under ALL possible bore conditions around.
You could try one stick first just to be sure even without hardneing it being the time of year that it is. LBT Blue would probably be my next choice if you were in my climate shooting your conditions for pistol. But friends that I know say that it fails in extreme heat climates.
Bass,
In researching one comes across something else he wasn't even looking for. I came across info on bullet lube looking at barrel wear info. So I don't remember who it was, but it was someone that was prominant in the gun business and shooting world and flatly put he thought the hard lubes were the worse of the bunch. Basing it on lube should not stay with the bullet but rather do it's job lubing the barrel. He started on his regime for a good lube when he first notices lube on his targets at 100 yards. He though...hmmmm that shouldn't be there, should be in the barrel.
So I dunno...I'm not a big user of hard lubes and I can't say I've had any disasterous failures with soft lube.
As to Bullshops speed green being overkill I reckon my lube is too. I'll bet that my lube and Bulls aren't very different. I'll also bet that many lube makers out there, not talking companies but individuals, have made the same thing as Bull and I and may not have even known it. I question too why Dan has a little amount of the original Alox 2138F. I had asked him to sell me just a wee bit, but the answer was no. This leads me to suppect that his speed green isn't anything that hasn't already been tried. I've said this before and will say it again, I don't think it takes much of a lube to lube. Dan from Mountain Moulds and I believe lube seals more then it lubes. I really doubt that anyone concocting lube have come across anything tha Harris didn't try in those NRA Cast Bullet book tests. I believe Junior has a pretty decent lube too. You'll notice that Lars45 main lube is basically the 50/50 Alox/Beeswax.....just like I think that's a hard one to beat.
I think alot of opinions about lubes may come from other factors then the lubes tried. I think someone may get leading from other reasons and then condemn the lube they were using at the time, and when that leading problem stopped for whatever reason they praise and think the lube they were using then is the best. Until someone can pinpoint 100 percent exactly what bullet lube does in centerfire smokeless loads, the perfect lube will never be invented, unless it already has.
Joe
I have been using the same lube for pistol loads for 45 years with 100% satisfaction. I use beeswax softened with enough Vasaline so it will work in the lube/size machine. The porportions are not critical, but about 60/40 was to jelly is about right.
I have tried about every lube that comes down the pike, but have no found any that work better. Some are just as good, but none better. This lube works in light bullseye loads to full snort magnum, plain base or gas check.
Across the board of lubes, the synthetics have to be taken very seriously as per application. Some are extremely hard to clean up after, such as a polymerized urea composition. Nothing we typically use to clean a barrel will take this stuff out. Just be careful when playing with some of these greases. If it won't wipe off your hands to in terms of coming off clean enough, soon enough, for example, be especially cautious. ... felix
felix
Bass
When I origonaly posted the recipe for Speed Green, cant remember what thread it was but I did include the proportion of carnauba I like to firm up the lube. As you said I use the flake form of pure carnaube at .5oz per 1lb of lube. This will still work through a lube sizer at room temp without heat, but when the lubed boolits are left out for 24hrs the surface of the lube will dry and handle without stickyness.
It is important to pre melt the carnauba before adding to the lube. The carnaube has a high melting point and I dont like to bring the be wax up to that temp. I dont like for it to smoke, too hot. I melt the bee wax in a double boiler to prevent scorching. Anytime your getting smoke you are burning and forming carbon, which is what we are trying to keep to a minimum in the barrel. We get plenty from burning powder.
Once the carnauba is melted it will blend much better with the lube.
Joe
Again as I posted on the origonal thread the reason the the addition of .5oz allox per 1lb of lube was not to enhance the lube, but to aid in releace of the lube sticks from the molds. I use copper tubes for my lube molds and the small ammount of allox almost makes the sticks fall from the molds but without the allox they must be pushed out. If they must be pushed out and are still soft it tends to partly close the center hole. That is the only reason I add allox and if the lube is not being cast into sticks it is not neaded.
BIC/BS
In regard to bullet designs, I tend to lean on the side of middle to higher weight. My 45 acp is 215grn rnfp. Single lube groove. My 45 Colt is plain base single lube grove with a weight of 285grns, 41 mag is 250 grain GC with two equal lube grooves. they all carry a minumn of .4 grains of lube. The single band grooves are a minumun of .10 in the dual bands are an average of .070 wide. These are all desgned on Dans' webb sight, Most all are based on existing designs with slight modifications to suit me, little wider base, more lube surface, but the biggest mods are nose profile. Mine I like at 73% of bullet diamiter. Wide , but not so wide they are hard to stabilize.
The 45 acp is the exception with a nose of 62%
Joe,
What I meant about being over kill is that most bullet lubes perform best when they are just .... slipery enough for the pressure application at which they are used. In the case of Bullshops, I notice no accuracy loss even though his lube is slippery enough for the highest pressure / velocity applications.
I have read Fryxell's theory about lube sealing. All I can say is that for something to be true, it has to always be true. While I understand and agree with his description of forces affecting lube displacement in a bore, I disagree on a seal. Here are three violations that I know of with the "seal theory".
1. Norm Johnson shoots cast in his 357 magnum at 1500 fps with no lube what so ever. NONE!!!! It was written up in one of the Fouling Shot magazines with pictures. Good groups too!
2. Then I have a bullet that I run over 2000 fps in a 44 rifle that the only lube groove is the GC groove. It leaves enough lube to take care of the next bullet down the pipe. (That blew Dan's mind when he made that one.)
3. Considered the best form of rifling for cast, Cut rifling is where the grooves have parrallel to bore tool marks that run the entire length of the barrel. In other words it is impossible to form a "lube seal". And it is written that old timers used to have the grooves of their muzzle loaders "freshened up" when the started to wear smooth to "improve" performance.
So that does the "Seal theory" for me.
I believe that lubes lube. I believe that lube needs to be used as sparingly as possible because when it is left in the bore, it becomes a hydrolic fouling for the next shot that can size down the bullet and cause you to LOSE seal. (and strip too) Thus lowering your velocity ceiling or causing you to need harder bullets for the same application.
Just so you know my position.
Bass,
I don't think with the tight fit and high friction of a bullet that a bullet lubricant needs to be slippery. There's a big difference between lubes that don't have a high friction application and ones that do. With that said I don't believe todays bullet lubes are "slippery" compared to some really slippery oil or lubes out there. One example of a very very slippery oil is fish oil. I dropped a screw driver in a pan of fish oil and although I could grab it to pick it up, I couldn't hold on to it. That stuff was really slippery. If slippery was good for bullets I'm sure we'd be oiling up our jacketed bullets, but then we'd find are accuracy going to heck. So just a little oil then? No...it's just not done to jacketed. Those moly coats another story and in my opinion more developed to cut barrel wear and jacket fouling.
I never said that bullet lubes duty was 100 percent sealing. I just said I believe a good portion of it is.
I wish I had the energy and money ( I have the time) to go ahead and test all kinds of bullet lubes.
Joe
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