Adventures in top punch making (Long)

[oldtoolsniper]

I can see in one respect this is like wood working, there are a lot of ways to get to the same end result. I took classes for two years at Palomar College; it was for Cabinet and furniture technology. On average we had 25 students in each class which meant there were 24 ways to do each thing that was to be accomplished.

[Boomer Mikey]

I like TapMagic for drilling and hand threading too. For cut-off, threading and reaming in the lathe I use Do-Drill from Brownell's. I put the liquid in one of the Brownell's one ounce needle bottles that lets me put a drop or two where I want it. Most of the time I cut mild steel, stainless and aluminum dry except when working on tough material with a lot of heat. The little Smithy doesn't have enough power to take a serious cut.

I took Machine Technology courses at our Community College and fortunately got four classes out of the six offered completed before they closed the program. Community College classes are an incredible bargain for what you pay. I liked the College so much I got a job in the Electronics Department and I occasionally get to play in the machine shop making a project for the college.


Cut-off operations and the use of carbide tooling in my 1324 Smithy were a nightmare until I removed the slop in the headstock bearings and made a "Rock of Gibraltar" style tool post to replace the flimsy compound rest. The "Rock" still accepts my Aloris style QC tool posts. I rarely cut heavy threads so I cut threads head-on or switch back to the compound rest if feel the need to. The difference in rigidity makes all the difference in the world... cut accuracy is improved too as the cutting tool can't flex lower during heavy cuts and the cutting tool can't skip as easily during light cuts.


Indexable tooling is a great convenience if you can make the tool holder and headstock bearings rigid enough to use it in a light machine. I also re-sharpen carbide inserts or touch them up with a diamond stone; however, for the best surface finish I use indexable HSS inserts from The Little Machine Shop.com (center tool).


I make my own lathe and mill tools for a couple of different indexable tooling styles as most of the cheap Chinese stuff wouldn't last for me and the good ones are too expensive for my meager budget.

Have fun,

Boomer

[JIMinPHX]

One of the board members just sent me a PM asking for a picture of the cut off tools that I make. I figured that I would post it here so that everyone could see. The one on the left is one of the very first ones I made. I cut it out of a single block of some crazy high tech tool steel that was left over from a job. Back then, I thought that I would need all the rigidity of this monolithic block design & high tech material. Over the years, this design has morphed into the holder that you see on the right. It is just made out of plain old 1018 cold roll. It gets it's strength from it's sheer size & beef. It gives me no trouble. This one is a two piece design. The advantage of having two pieces, is that if I want to go to a different size cut off blade, I only need to make a new lower piece. The underside of the top piece is set to the center height of the spindle & always stays there. The surfaces that you are looking at on the newer tool are just saw cuts. The good machining is only where it counts, on the mating surfaces. The bottom piece has some small undercuts to keep all the stresses where they belong. The bolts are 1/4"-28.

[oldtoolsniper]

I am looking at those cut off tools and I don’t understand how they attach to the lathe. My lathes use a rocker style (I believe that’s the name) tool holder. Are those designed to fit on a quick release type holder?

[trevj]

Look at the tool holders in the posts above. These are held in those.

Not for a rocker type post.

Saw a nice rig for rocker posts a while back. Had a ajustable bolt to support the underside of the cutter holder, against the topslide. It allowed for a lot of overhang, and still had pretty darn good rigidity. Looked kinda Mickey Mouse, but worked well.


Cheers
Trev

[JIMinPHX]

My lathes use a rocker style (I believe that’s the name) tool holder.

Rockers are the antique type. They are for people that have more time than money & don't have access to a mill. If you have the money, buy an Aloris quick change system (or a $100 on-sale knock off). If you have access to a mill, then make yourself a block style tool holder like Boomer did, except cut a 1" x 1" slot in the side & on the front of it & set your slot bases about .752" below your spindle center. Put 3 or 4 set screws into each slot from the top to hold your tools. If you don't have access to a mill or money to spend on an A post, then you need to just keep setting your tool heights correctly on the rocker & don't get too aggressive with your cuts.

[JIMinPHX]

Are you still out there sniper?

[oldtoolsniper]

Yes sir I am here!

[oldtoolsniper]

I found one of those styles of tool holeders at the little machine shop. I am going to purchase these when my welfare check hits the bank .
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...3514&category=

[lathesmith]

I have good experiences with TCMT inserts, though mine are the slightly larger 1/2" shank that use 3151's. Contrary to popular myth, these can be made to work quite well on small machines as well as larger ones. Not only will they peel off a decent chunk of metal, but with a little practice you can even get a decent finish with them. And best of all, no grinding required for a beginner. Just set them on-center and start cutting....
lathesmith

[snaggdit]

Hey Oldtoolsniper, you will be all set! The promo info states: "This package contains all the tooling you need to be productive with your Atlas/Craftsman 6" lathe on the first day you own it." I guess the operative term here that needs better definition is productive... I'm sure I could make lots of metal chips but can't speak to the usability of a finished product if I tried it myself I have started thinking more seriously about a mill and lathe now. Can't really afford both/either new, should I consider looking around for used?

[JIMinPHX]

Yes sir I am here!

If you don't already have a set of calipers, you might want to check out Harbor Freight sometime soon. They have 6" digital calipers on sale for about $13. Now Harbor Freight is not my favorite place to go looking for precision measuring instruments, but at that price, it's hard to turn down. The price is good until 4/20/9

[oldtoolsniper]

Jim,
I have 3 or 4. 1 is digital and the others are standard dial. At the rate I am going within 1/4" is precision! I hope to get that down to 1/16” soon!

[Screwbolts]

Jim,
I have 3 or 4. 1 is digital and the others are standard dial. At the rate I am going within 1/4" is precision! I hope to get that down to 1/16” soon!

I like the way you think!!!!!

[38-55]

Hey Old tool snipper !
Who needs fancy measuring tools ??? ! This is all ya need !!! ( recognize any thing boomer ?)
Ya really made me feel good about only charging 15 bucks for my top punches.. Heck I may have to raise prices a bit after reading your story !
Thanks for the laughs !
Stay safe
Calvin

[oldtoolsniper]

I'm getting better! I had lathesmith make me a die for my star sizer and I am in awe! it looks so nice I hate to use it.

[38-55]

Hey old tool Snipper,
Practice will definitely make you better on your lathe.. When I started out I had a devil of a time grinding hss tool bits.. made them to the specs in the pictures and all.. nothing seemed to work.. So I just 'free handed' what I thought should work and it did.. Went and re-read my 'how to run a lathe' book for the umpteenth time and finally learned that the path to progress was to heavy up the feed ( cut) and slow the speed ( depth of cut per revolution ).. It's been working ever since..
Another thing that may help out is after you grind a bit.. touch it up with a stone so it's really sharp..
Good luck ( and keep practicing )
Stay safe
Calvin
PS while is may piss of some purists... running machine tools is alot like sports.. there is alot of 'feel' involved.. A gentle touch is a good thing to have for machine work..

[oldtoolsniper]

Hey old tool Snipper,
Practice will definitely make you better on your lathe.. When I started out I had a devil of a time grinding hss tool bits.. made them to the specs in the pictures and all.. nothing seemed to work.. So I just 'free handed' what I thought should work and it did.. Went and re-read my 'how to run a lathe' book for the umpteenth time and finally learned that the path to progress was to heavy up the feed ( cut) and slow the speed ( depth of cut per revolution ).. It's been working ever since..
Another thing that may help out is after you grind a bit.. touch it up with a stone so it's really sharp..
Good luck ( and keep practicing )
Stay safe
Calvin
PS while is may piss of some purists... running machine tools is alot like sports.. there is alot of 'feel' involved.. A gentle touch is a good thing to have for machine work..

Gentle touch.... So your saying I can end my search for a lead hammer mold?

[leftiye]

Plus 1 on not believeing the book too much. I've found the same thing 38-55 did, I never run the speeds in the handbook (Machinery's). Or I should say I can't - they're always too fast. Slower (not too slow) and with an easy feed makes for easier, smoother cuts. Then experiment with faster speeds and/or heavier cuts a little at a time till you get an idea of what works and what doesn't. If you want tenths, finish with an abrasive or toolpost grinder.

[JIMinPHX]

The feeds & speeds that you read in books are for big beefy rigid machines with bearings & ways that are in premium condition. Don't expect to reach those numbers on a home shop machine unless it is pristine. Even CNC machines have feed rate overide knobs on them that usually start at 100% & go down from there. CNC operators usually start with the overide down around 20% & bring it up until she chatters & then bring her back down a little. It's common for them to run at about 70-80% on a normal production run. As tools dull, that number often goes down.