Water quench then size?

[NuJudge]

I believe there are some Lead alloys that do not respond to quenching, especially the purer Leads.

[mag_01]

Very true

[454PB]

I size them right after casting. Reason #1 is that it will resoften them if done days latter, and reason#2 is that they are still soft and easier to size.

In my long term tests, it takes quenched boolits about a month to reach full hardness, and I have tested by filing in 1/3 of the diameter and found they are the same hardness within. I have also tested boolits that were sized a week after casting, and found they were a lot softer than the same ones in the batch that were sized immediately. This convinced me that they need sizing quickly.

I don't see the sense in both quenching and heat treating, but heat treating is more precise.

[StarMetal]

Star, We have actually gone through this before. Work softening proceeds at about the speed of sound. Bad news is that that means that .004" takes about 12 millionths of a second. So lets say before the boolit gets completely engraved in the rifling, eh? More bad news - if you look at the comments above, you'll see that mashing .002" of the surface of a boolit (sizing) softens somewhat more than the .002 on the surface. Apparently, it messes up whatever crystals it affects. May even cause a chain reaction. Air quench, size, heat treat for best results.

Howdy Leftiye,

Good info. I didn't know that. I wonder if there is a chain reaction. If not do you think the hardness serves it's purpose until the bullet gets out of the barrel? Some things I query are that we know for a fact that hardened bullets don't expand as much as ones that aren't hardened. That's telling me they aren't softening in the barrel through firing. They also perform different in the barrel then their softer counterparts. They don't slug up as well, say in revolvers. What do you think about all that?

Joe

[dwtim]

I WQ while casting, and size the same day. It takes weeks for peak hardness to happen. There are threads on this forum where the poster sampled with a hardness tester over time and recorded the results.

[Bret4207]

I size them right after casting. Reason #1 is that it will resoften them if done days latter, and reason#2 is that they are still soft and easier to size.

In my long term tests, it takes quenched boolits about a month to reach full hardness, and I have tested by filing in 1/3 of the diameter and found they are the same hardness within. I have also tested boolits that were sized a week after casting, and found they were a lot softer than the same ones in the batch that were sized immediately. This convinced me that they need sizing quickly.

I don't see the sense in both quenching and heat treating, but heat treating is more precise.

If pushing them through the sizer softens them, and I've never really taken precise measurement to verify it, then why wouldn't filing soften them too? Maybe sizing isn't softening them as much as we think. Time for someone to step up and do the testing boys.

[Gunslinger]

What about water temperature does that have any affect on the hardness? I hear some people say you should use ice water instead??

[felix]

It is always best to size hard boolits because they go into the die straighter. For BR boolits, water drop, wait a month minimum, size without lube (light oil spray ok), oven treat, weigh into zero grain variance lots, check and lube the lots keeping them seperate, wait a year or more, then shoot on lot at a time. Will get a maximum of 1/2 inch accuracy at a hunnert with average alloy. Better alloys can give double the accuracy. ... felix

[felix]

Ice water will help the big diameter boolits somewhat. In this case, however, it's best to use hot water to encourage a softer core for hunting boolits. Keep in mind heat transfer is limited by the steam generated. Might get a boost by using ice cold anti-freeze for making big boolits harder. I have never wanted to do this because 22 boolits, for example, tend to get hard just by air dropping, and with some alloys, hard enough. I just don't shoot big boolits for accuracy. Beer can fodder for the 100 percent shooting I do. ... felix

[AZ-Stew]

I plan on just making Sunday plinkin' boolits for light/regular pistol loads.

This is the operative phrase in the original question.

If you're making "light, plinking loads", you don't need hardened boolits. As-cast WW (or air-cooled WW, your preference) will work perfectly well in your handguns.

Nonetheless, you did start an interesting conversation.

Regards,

Stew

[leftiye]

Howdy Leftiye,
Good info. I didn't know that. I wonder if there is a chain reaction. If not do you think the hardness serves it's purpose until the bullet gets out of the barrel? Some things I query are that we know for a fact that hardened bullets don't expand as much as ones that aren't hardened. That's telling me they aren't softening in the barrel through firing. They also perform different in the barrel then their softer counterparts. They don't slug up as well, say in revolvers. What do you think about all that? Joe

The harder lead alloys have higher pastic deformation strengths, so they do not bump up, or deform as easily as softer alloys. This goes for heat treated boolits too. Interestingly, heat treated boolits are still malleable similar to their malleability before hardening. So, if you're talking about expansion in terminal (hit the hog) terms, you are right, they do expand after hardening albeit at higher impact velocities.

As for hardening doing its job while the boolit is in the barrel, I think it does resist major deformation better for being hardened. Here I run into one of my personal theories.

Though harder boolits are said by some to lead less, and I think they do to a degree (so I guess the answer would be yes it helps with leading and holding the rifling while in the barrel). I'm believeing that what we expect lead to perfom like In terms of BHN is quite a bit more optomistic than it should be. I think the surface of the boolits acts like much softer lead while in the barrel. Paper patched boolits are much more forgiving as velicities increase. Ironically, this is true also in terms of boolit slumping - or in other words structurally too. Softer alloys can be shot faster when paper patched.