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Thread: Mauser in 308 Win?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Mauser in 308 Win?

    Today at a gunshow, I saw a Mauser in 308 Win. caliber. The gun had some cosmetic issues, meaning it was beat up pretty badly. The middle band was MIA, and the bore wasn't anything to write home about either. The guy that had it claimed it was a Spanish, but no crest was visible. They were asking $179, he came to $165, I offered $150. No deal, so I walked on. Should I have bought it, or was he too high. The guy that had it is from a local pawn shop, so if he doesn't sell it tomorrow, it will be easy to get back to. I have about 2K empty brass for a 308 and no rifle, but I don't know if this is the one for me. Advice? And no, I don't want to sell the brass, before anyone asks.

  2. #2
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    runfiverun's Avatar
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    they built mausers in 308 but used a lighter load in them.
    the spanish one was called the fr-8.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub Joe Bob's Avatar
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    Spanish .308 Carbine

    Is this it? If so, they're going from $250-$350 on Gunsamerica. Like fiver said...They were loaded light. Sooooo, load 'em light.
    Last edited by Joe Bob; 03-26-2009 at 03:33 AM.

  4. #4
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    I have a 1916 Spanish Mauser also. It has no markings. They were ground off during the conversion from 7mm to 7.62 NATO. I've read that you should not shoot full power 7.62/.308 loads in them, so I don't. Nice shooter with cast boolits. I paid $69 for mine in 1986 or so.
    Will Fly For Boolits

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I had a M1916 in .308/7.62x51 that was a very nice little rifle. I put a 7.62x39mm chamber adapter in it, but had to use it as a single shot because I never did overcome the feeding porblem. It was hilarious to watch. You could load five in the magazine, but when you ejected the first empty the four in the magazine flew into the air. On the other hand, at the time it was about the cheapest centerfire shooting available.

    I finally extracted the adapter, cleaned the chamber and used the rifle for cast boolit loads until I sold it.

    Spain converted some of the M1916's to FR-7 configuration by welding a fake FAL sight on the reciever ring and installing a false gas tube, FAL bayonet lug and front sight. They did the same with M48's, a M98 variant, calling it the FR-8. The FR-8 is capable of taking any pressures .308 Win/7.62 Nato can dish out.

    My current military .308 is a Chilean M1912/61 NATO made by rebarreling a M1912 Steyr long rifle with a reconfigured '03-A3 barrel and reaming to 7.62X51mm. The rifle is shortened to resemble a K98k. It's an excellent shooter with either cast or j-word projectiles. The Chilean gov't did a shipload of those in '61.

    I bought 1200 rounds of 147 gr. Indian 7.62x51 very ($0.09/ round) cheap because the seller thought it was berdan primed. It's not. The M1912/61 is very good with the Indian stuff.

    The rifle in the pic, a converted M1916 is often referred to as a "Guardia Civil" carbine. And a handy little rifle it is. To answer the question, I think $150 is not unreasonable if the seller relents. Load it to Krag ballistics and enjoy it.

    There have been several encyclopedias worth of web posts pro and con about the safety of .308 in the Guardia Civil rifles and another five or six more of the "I heard from a buddy of mine that his wife's hairdresser's brother in law's cousin was told by a trusted freind that he'd heard of one of these things blowing up." HP White tested a couple to destruction and concluded that while the rifles were old and had limited gas handling capability, there was no problem with safety with commercial and military ammo.

    That said, I'm a yellow bellied coward and loaded mine to Krag velocities.

    Gerry N
    Last edited by Gerry N.; 03-01-2009 at 12:13 AM.

  6. #6
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    GerryN,
    Where did you find the 7.62x39 adapter for it? Sure would like to find one myself.
    Mike
    Will Fly For Boolits

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    This one was an older model, cock on closing. I have also read that the earlier ones were designed for the 7.62 Cetme, which was a low pressure version of the 308. I think I will lay off this one, the bore scares me. I don't want to spend more on a re-barrel than the rifle costs.

  8. #8
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    missionary5155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westwindmike View Post
    I have a 1916 Spanish Mauser also. It has no markings. They were ground off during the conversion from 7mm to 7.62 NATO. I've read that you should not shoot full power 7.62/.308 loads in them, so I don't. Nice shooter with cast boolits. I paid $69 for mine in 1986 or so.
    Good morning I bought 4 of these (One for each of us shooters) 15 years back and we have fired many CAST loads at about 1800-2000 FPS. As Cast is all we shoot there is little concern about strength. But I would not be afraid to load it to 7mm pressures. But they make great cast rifles and at $65 we are not real worried about if it falls in the river (shallow) off the kayak or stays in the rain all day. Out to 100 yards I can hit bolwling pins 50% and paper plate all day long.
    I personally would not underestimate the strength of a Mauser.
    God Bless you

  9. #9
    Boolit Master



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    I too have a 1916 and have shot both civilian ammo and military in it,paid $125 for it about 15 years ago.I haven't shot it in a long time,and not but a few rounds when I did.Theres is too much debate on whether or not it will hold up.So I figger it is best not to do anything,maybe rebarrel/restock to a 257 Roberts.At least that was the plan at one time.
    Pro Patria-Ne Desit Virtus

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    also the Isreai's had mauser 98's chamberd in 7.62x51 (.308 win) centruy sells 'em

  11. #11
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    Bret4207's Avatar
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    I'm glad someone straightened the FR8 thing out. These are 98's not 93/95's and are fine rifles. I personally have no issue with using sane 308 loads in a 93/95, but that's just me.

  12. #12
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    There really shouldn't be much 'debate" on the FR7 and FR8s. Both were made to shoot full 7.62 NATO ammunition. Any "debate" should simply be over the "condition" of some of the FR7s and how long they will hold up under 7.62 Nato ammo before the lugs set back. A few of them have set back but the vast majority have not. I know of several FR7s that have had thousands of rounds of US M80 ball through them with nary a hitch. The FR8s are built on the M98 action and pose no problem with 7.62 NATO ammo at all. I've several thousand round of it through my FR8. Other than the few poor condition FR7s that have had lug set back I'm not aware of any that have "blown up" from the use of 7.62 NATO ammuntion or .308W ammuntion.

    Attached is athe actual Spanish Manual for these rifles. You can see (if you hable espaniol) that they are made for use with 7.62NATO and the lower powered CETME cartridge. Note that the German engineers corrected the functioning problem with the CETME (fluted the chambers) and the lower powered ammo is no longer required for those. The low powered "CETME" ammo has not been made for many years. Thus the FR7 and FR8 saw years of service in Spain using 7.62 NATO ammunition.

    I'm not recommending the use of any particular ammo in these rifles (it causes the doomsday nay sayers to come out in droves). Use what ever ammo floats your boat. My intentions here is simply to present the facts of the matter so please, no impassioned outcries that I am recommending death and destruction because I am not.

    FYI; I might add that my pressure testing of both numerous lots of M80 7.62 NATO and several different lots and manufacturers of milsurp 7x57 shows the milsurp 7x57 ammo to actually give higher pressures than 7.62 NATO M80 Ball.

    Larry Gibson
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 07-09-2009 at 11:37 AM.

  13. #13
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    runfiverun's Avatar
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    iirc, india made a bunch of 308 rifles too called ishapores?
    thus the fun of military rifles you gotts ta do your homework.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Four Fingers of Death's Avatar
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    Go Israeli unless you get it for a song.
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westwindmike View Post
    GerryN,
    Where did you find the 7.62x39 adapter for it? Sure would like to find one myself.
    Mike
    Try here:http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

    I had that one from him and I've got an Auxiliary cartridge that adapts .30 Carbine to fire in a .308 chamber.

    Gerry N.
    Last edited by Gerry N.; 03-02-2009 at 05:22 AM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Man

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    .308 Mausers

    I love Mausers. I also love the .308. There's not a lot of .mil Mausers around in .308...but there are some.

    My favorite is the FR-8. I own two of them. These were converted from Spain's M43 8mm Mauser. Interestingly, they are the only (other than the similar FR-7) "official" .mil Mauser I'm aware of which is equipped with peep sights! These rifle were given CETME-type sights as Spain was converting to the CETME as its MBR. The basic M98 action is more than sufficient for any sane .308 load. The FR-7 was Spain's conversion using their old stocks of 1916s. These are M93 actions. Not as strong as the basic M98, but probably OK. I own a Spanish 1916 and while I mainly reserve it for boolits, I've fired a bit of 7.62 NATO surplus through it without anything being amiss.

    I also have a nice Israeli M98 in .308. Israel converted a lot of WWII-era Mausers to 7.62 NATO in the 1950s, but most were parts guns of uncertain heritage. Mine is a genuine FN Herstal contracted for by Israel in the early '50s.

    Though I haven't done it (yet) I have thought about converting a Yugo M24/47 or M48 to 7.62 Nato. Their intermediate length, large ring actions seem like a perfect - and inexpensive - match.

    Best regards
    Doc

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc1 View Post
    Though I haven't done it (yet) I have thought about converting a Yugo M24/47 or M48 to 7.62 Nato. Their intermediate length, large ring actions seem like a perfect - and inexpensive - match.
    Best regards
    Doc
    That would be an almost ideal conversion if you want a .mil configured rifle in .308 / 7.62 NATO. Where would one find a .308 barrel in the Mauser stepped profile?

    A few years ago I found some Swedish issue barrels in .30-06 that were made to go into M98 recievers. I bought four at $20 per each. I had one put into a K98k which had a very poor bore, trading the other three for the service. That was not a good conversion as the K98k magazine is too short for even .30-06 service ammo so I sold it for $250 to a guy who didn't care. Made my money back and a tidy profit.

    Gerry N.

  18. #18
    Boolit Man Nelsdou44's Avatar
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    Cole's Distributing has new Mauser replacement military barrels in 7.62 NATO, 2 for $189. The "steps" on the two I got were a bit of out of spec from the original Mauser dimensions and required some touch up on the lathe, but the bores are excellent.

    Nels

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Bob S's Avatar
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    The Wilson .308 military profile barrel is up to $191 now, but it is still the best bet. It's a match grade barrel, and will drive tacks if properly assembled and bedded.

    http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...USER%20BARRELS

    A Yugo 24/47 with the Wislon .308 barrel and an FN 24 bolt:



    This barrel I had originally installed on an Israeli Swede K98k that had a totally roached bore. Fired at 100 yards prone in the sling with a good lot of US A-130 surplus:



    I managed to find two NOS Israeli 7.62 barrels in the white, and replaced the barrel on the Israeli with one of these. I moved the Wilson barrel to the Yugo.

    First target fired with the barrel on the Yugo, 100 yards prone in the sling as always. Ammo was loaded for my Parker-Hale T4, so not tuned for this rifle. 311672; 14 grains 2400. Group is a little over 1-3/4"; not too shabby considering crude sights and "generic" ammo.



    Windage can be predictably corrected using:



    or:



    or:



    Elevation can be precisely and predictably adjusted by:





    The sight illustrated is for a K31, but the principle is the same. Leaf is drilled and tapped for a socket head set screw. The length of the screw is tuned so that it is just barely out of the line of sight with the elevation at minimum. A small notch filed on the top and colored with a drop of paint gives a reference for the amount of adjustment.

    You will not win the National Championship with this set-up (and the barrel change and sight alterations are not legal for CMP "Vintage" rules), but you can shoot some pretty good scores with "that old crappy Mauser".

    The Yugo intermediate actions do work perfectly with the .308 Win/7.62 cartridges with no alterations. I have found it useful to install an Israeli blocking follower in the Yugo's to let me know when the magazine is empty.

    Resp'y,
    Bob S.
    USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067

    It's REAL ... it's wood and steel!

  20. #20
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    Bob,

    Those are great ideas for the front and rear sights! I've got a Turk Mauser (or two or three ) that could use this treatment!

    Bruce
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
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