Krag Question

[Gerry N.]

I must have fallen in the Lucky Ditch when I acquired my Krag. Maybe someone can help me a little with ID'ing it.

Firstly it has a 27" barrel, with the front sight tower brazed into a long dovetail and a Springfield style blade pinned into it. The stock has been badly desecrated with rasp and sandpaper into a sort of bastard schnobble just ahead of the upper band and the wrist thinned to a shadow of what I see in pictures of Krags. There is also some very badly done "checkering" on the wrist. The scratches are about 3/16" apart. The metal has a kind of brownish cast with wear areas lacking any finish. The rifle appears to have been used hard and long, but other than the stock, not actually abused. The rear sight is elevation adjusable only. On the forward left side of the reciever are the numerals "1894." then "U. S." over "Springfield Armory" followed by "1857". The bore is absolutely pristine looking. When I got it I cleaned the bore with Ed's Red then with Sweet's 7.62. I got no traces of blue indicating to me that there's no jacket fouling.

The frosting on this cake is that it shoots wheelweight .311299's as cast, unchecked and tumbled with Lee mule snot over 1.3 CC's of Unique into 3" to 4" clusters at 50 yards all afternoon with no leading. A few fairly tight patches come out clean with Hoppe's.

I got it two Summers ago. I was jawing with an old boy at a flea market about some handloading stuff he had, including a set of Wilson .30-40 Krag dies. He said he had an old Army Krag he wanted to get rid of. It had been up in the rafters of his dad's garage since the late 50's. It was his uncle's, and unc. had died in the 80's and the rifle got forgotten. We haggled for a while until he beat me up to his price. $50.00 and he threw in the dies.

I found a Springfield band and ramp that I was thinking of putting on the barrel, then driving it back to the 22" mark, cutting and recrowning. I also figured to hack off that horrid schnobbley looking forend tip and rounding it. The stock's been varnished, that will go, to be replaced with several coats of boiled linseed oil. I saw an NRA Krag Sporter years back and it looks like that's what they did. I dunno what to do about the back sight, no windage adjustment. Luckily the thing hits center to 50 yds at least.

Other than a decent shooter, what have I got, and are my plans for it reasonable?

Gerry N.

[Dean D.]

Hey Gerry, sounds like you got a nice shooter at a fire sale price. Since it is already butchered there is not much you could do to it that would devalue it any further IMO. Throw a nice peep sight on it and have fun!

Back in the 60s my Dad sporterized an old Krag for my Mom. He cut the barrel back to 20", beveled the forestock and put a nice Williams peep sight on it. That rifle is a tack driver with a 180gr RN J-Word boolit and one handy brush gun.

Enjoy your Krag!

[Bret4207]

Wow, sounds like the work of the famed (infamous?) gunnysmith Harry T. Aardvark Jr. of Lonesome Corners NY, which as we all know is just east of Bleeding Hemmoroids in Destitute County near the Hopeless River.

Serioulsy, you have the start of a nice classic sporter for little $$$. Good on you!

[Gerry N.]

Well, I swallowed hard and did it. Cut the muzzle off just behind the front sight so the barrel would be small enough to start the Springfield front sight. Then I peened the band and drove it back until it stopped, peened it again, rinse and repeat until the front of the band was at the 21 1/2" mark. Cut the barrel at 22" theh chucked it in the lathe to square the muzzle and cut a crown. Then I sanded off the blue under the band, sanded out the inside of the band, tinned 'em both with .50-50 solder, drove the band into place, squared it by eye with the backsight. Then I heated the whole shebang with the propane torch until I saw a teensy bead of solder squeeze out. Wiped it off and let things cool while I cut the butt ugly schnobble off the fore end and rounded it a little.

Upon reassembling things, it's amazing how whacking off 1/4 lb. of barrel and an ounce of wood make the whole works feel like a featherweight carbine.

Tomorrow is a quick trip to the range to see if I can hit anything with it. I have some 311299's all lubed and sized. We'll see how 10 grains of Unique does at 50yards. These days 50 is my go-to distance. I have real problems with 100 as a few trips out and back makes my knees and back hurt so dang bad I want to use me as a target.

If the issue backsight is now wrong, I'll order a Williams 5D or maybe a WGOS and a Blade. Then I can toss the issue sight and hand guard and plug the holes in the barrel with the mounting screws, dress and spot blue.

I really farking hate that ugly steel buttplate, too. A nice recoil pad should tidy up the end of the rifle over the fence last. With the new back sight, a half decent strap and a pad, my $50 rifle will be up to about $85.

Gerry N.

[Bret4207]

Nice to hear of someone who can still do a little home gunsmithing. Good on you. We need pics of course.....

[725]

Since the project is open to so many modifications, I'll toss the idea of installing an ebony tip forend. With not much woodworking skills, it's an easy way to dress the stock. Easy and clean looking. I've used a chop saw, made a straight and even cut, drilled a hole into the stock for a wooden dowl anchoring/glueing post (and matching hole into a chunk of ebony or any othe wood for that matter), glued it togeher with a good wood glue (not Gorillia glue), sanded it down. Really nice touch. FWIW.

[madsenshooter]

I must have fallen in the Lucky Ditch when I acquired my Krag. Maybe someone can help me a little with ID'ing it.

Firstly it has a 27" barrel, with the front sight tower brazed into a long dovetail and a Springfield style blade pinned into it. The stock has been badly desecrated with rasp and sandpaper into a sort of bastard schnobble just ahead of the upper band and the wrist thinned to a shadow of what I see in pictures of Krags. There is also some very badly done "checkering" on the wrist. The scratches are about 3/16" apart. The metal has a kind of brownish cast with wear areas lacking any finish. The rifle appears to have been used hard and long, but other than the stock, not actually abused. The rear sight is elevation adjusable only. On the forward left side of the reciever are the numerals "1894." then "U. S." over "Springfield Armory" followed by "1857". The bore is absolutely pristine looking. When I got it I cleaned the bore with Ed's Red then with Sweet's 7.62. I got no traces of blue indicating to me that there's no jacket fouling.

The frosting on this cake is that it shoots wheelweight .311299's as cast, unchecked and tumbled with Lee mule snot over 1.3 CC's of Unique into 3" to 4" clusters at 50 yards all afternoon with no leading. A few fairly tight patches come out clean with Hoppe's.

I got it two Summers ago. I was jawing with an old boy at a flea market about some handloading stuff he had, including a set of Wilson .30-40 Krag dies. He said he had an old Army Krag he wanted to get rid of. It had been up in the rafters of his dad's garage since the late 50's. It was his uncle's, and unc. had died in the 80's and the rifle got forgotten. We haggled for a while until he beat me up to his price. $50.00 and he threw in the dies.

I found a Springfield band and ramp that I was thinking of putting on the barrel, then driving it back to the 22" mark, cutting and recrowning. I also figured to hack off that horrid schnobbley looking forend tip and rounding it. The stock's been varnished, that will go, to be replaced with several coats of boiled linseed oil. I saw an NRA Krag Sporter years back and it looks like that's what they did. I dunno what to do about the back sight, no windage adjustment. Luckily the thing hits center to 50 yds at least.

Other than a decent shooter, what have I got, and are my plans for it reasonable?

Gerry N.

Hi Gerry,

What you have is a model 1892 rifle, a fairly early one, the number on the right being the serial #. It was made in August of 1894. Any Krag sight will fit it, though the ones with windage adjustment require a different handguard. That thin wrist is normal for an 1892 rifle. They got thicker starting with the 1896 rifle, after numerous breakages. ( Whack him in the face with the buttplate, but do it gently, so as not to break the stock wrist).

You got an excellent deal, but for the sake of Kragdom, don't put a receiver sight on it that you'll need to drill and tap. Get a Redfield or Pacific that replaces the magazine cutoff. They come up on ebay, and occasionally someone lists one that doesn't know what he has, under peep sight or something like that. I got one of the Pacific's with target knobs, for $36 that way, and they usually bring around $80.

I think the 311299 was designed for the Krag, and back when it first came out, around 1906 or so, its 600 yard accuracy was equal to the accuracy of the service cartridge, so I've read. Enjoy it, and don't wreck the receiver, someone might want to make a 92 rifle out of it one day. We want pics!

madsenshooter

[elk hunter]

Gary N.

If you would like to sell the handguard and the rear sight let me know. They just might be what I need to complete one that I have.

[StarMetal]

Hi Gerry,

What you have is a model 1892 rifle, a fairly early one, the number on the right being the serial #. It was made in August of 1894. Any Krag sight will fit it, though the ones with windage adjustment require a different handguard. That thin wrist is normal for an 1892 rifle. They got thicker starting with the 1896 rifle, after numerous breakages. ( Whack him in the face with the buttplate, but do it gently, so as not to break the stock wrist).

You got an excellent deal, but for the sake of Kragdom, don't put a receiver sight on it that you'll need to drill and tap. Get a Redfield or Pacific that replaces the magazine cutoff. They come up on ebay, and occasionally someone lists one that doesn't know what he has, under peep sight or something like that. I got one of the Pacific's with target knobs, for $36 that way, and they usually bring around $80.

I think the 311299 was designed for the Krag, and back when it first came out, around 1906 or so, its 600 yard accuracy was equal to the accuracy of the service cartridge, so I've read. Enjoy it, and don't wreck the receiver, someone might want to make a 92 rifle out of it one day. We want pics!

madsenshooter

I always thought the 311284 was designed for the 30-40 Krag. In the NRA cast book they say the 311299 was originally designed for the .303 bores.

Joe

[madsenshooter]

I always thought the 311284 was designed for the 30-40 Krag. In the NRA cast book they say the 311299 was originally designed for the .303 bores.

Joe

Yep, you're right, always getting these #'s mixed up. But, I've found that many Krags have oversized bores, and not from wear, quality control and manufacturing technologies weren't up to the standards of say the 1930's. Out of 6 I have 1 with a .300 bore, .308 groove (had, I sold that barrel and been regretting it since). Most of mine are .301 bore, .310 groove, and a couple of those are like new. I usually use J-word bullets for the .303 or 7.62 Russians in my Krags and cast boolits are sized no smaller that .311.

[Gerry N.]

I had a quickie range session and the Krag still prints 311299's into about 4" at 50 yds., prollem being I had to elevate the rear sight to 700 yards to get 'em into the bull. Looks like I'm going to have to file the front sight down and raise the back sight up.

I'm thinking of simply removing the rear sight and replacing it with a Williams adjustable open sight with a fairly high blade. That, of course, will mean the issue sight and handguard have to go. I think it would be a shame not to keep the sight screws with the sight.

I've had excellent luck over the years filling screw holes in barrels by turning a bit of a common naiil to an intrference fit, then puttin a drop of salty water in the hole, driving the filler plug in, peening it slightly and dressing it to match the surface and spot bluing. Done that way a hole is nearly impossible to see. Much better than plug screws if you don't intend to use the hole again.

I've been shooting unsized mule snotted WW 311299's in the Krag to good effect with no leading so I think I won't go fixin' what aint' broke. Know what I mean, Vern? That boolit should be just the ticket for deer hearabouts,

I have so many good deer rifles, I need to get to someplace where I can take seven or eight deer a year. I have relatives in Norway, they take six or seven of what they call Elk and we call li'l bitty Mooses a year. They're dang pests. My cousin Per's rifle is an as-issued Norwegian Krag carbine he swears has the spirit of Thor in it and can't miss. Did I mention that some Norwegians are squirrely? Per is, I'm not.

Gerry N.

[madsenshooter]

To give you some idea of the relative rarity of a model 1892, out of nearly half a million Krag rifles made, only 24,919 were model 92s. If you have to push a button on your rear sight to raise it, it's a model 92. If the handguard doesn't cover the receiver ring, it's a model 92. If the rear sight has a knob that you have to loosen to raise it, it's a model 96, and if the handguard does cover the receiver ring, it too is a model 96. 4", 50 yard groups are large for the Krag. Try your 1.3cc dipper full of Blue Dot or 2400, I think you'll be very pleased!

[Gerry N.]

To give you some idea of the relative rarity of a model 1892, out of nearly half a million Krag rifles made, only 24,919 were model 92s. If you have to push a button on your rear sight to raise it, it's a model 92. If the handguard doesn't cover the receiver ring, it's a model 92. If the rear sight has a knob that you have to loosen to raise it, it's a model 96, and if the handguard does cover the receiver ring, it too is a model 96. 4", 50 yard groups are large for the Krag. Try your 1.3cc dipper full of Blue Dot or 2400, I think you'll be very pleased!

Well, I'm thoroughly corn-fused about Krag model numbers now. To raise the rear sight you loosen a knurled nut, then tighten when it's where you want it. No windage adjustment. The handguard covers the receiver ring. So, I'm thinking its a M96 even with the reciever dated 1894 and the serial #1857? If it's a M96 I may go for a Williams 5D sight. Midway's got 'em right now for less than $28 and it'd be good to have that little hole to look through and the extra 11 1/2" of sight radius.

I have a fresh canister of Alliant 2400 and will give it a try. The 4" at 50yds is all me. I trust the rifle will do better than I can. The 311299 mold I have is an old Ideal with the blocks made as part of the handles. I seem to remember that Ideal went to loose blocks sometime in the 1920's. The mold casts boolits that are within half a thou. of round, how many new ones will do that?

Gerry N.

[madsenshooter]

Sorry didn't mean to confuse you, it is a model 92 rifle that has been upgraded to 96 standards, with a 96 rear sight and handguard, and perhaps in that schnabel you found some wood with the grain running different where the cleaning rod slot was filled in. At the bottom of the receiver ring cut on the stock, there should still be a piece of metal, that's the cleaning rod stop. 1894 is when the production of the model 92 began, there was some squabbling about picking a foreign design that had to be settled before production started. 16grs of 2400 may be more appropriate than the 17.5 that 1.3CC would equal, especially since you're using LLA. Enjoy the thing! Take a look at this post, see what I did to mine! http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=46938 It too is a 92/96, one of three that I have. I'm going to find out just how accurate it is!

[swheeler]

GerryN; nice find, after shooting it for awhile you will truely understand the term "smooth". The Lee 170 gr fn and their 200 grain bullet are both quite accurate in my Krag. The 170 grain at almost 2000 fps shoots 1+ inches c to c @ 50 yds all day long with surplus 7383. The target is 1.432 os-.310 dia=1.122 c to c @ 50, not bad for a 110 year old rifle. Enjoy your newly aquired toy, it's a keeper. Scot

[swheeler]

have a fresh canister of Alliant 2400 and will give it a try. The 4" at 50yds is all me. I trust the rifle will do better than I can. The 311299 mold I have is an old Ideal with the blocks made as part of the handles. I seem to remember that Ideal went to loose blocks sometime in the 1920's. The mold casts boolits that are within half a thou. of round, how many new ones will do that?



I'm sure this will get some response, but not trying to step on anyones toes here. I have found 2400 to be quite position sensitive, and use it only with dacron filler, and have found Unique to be virtually position insensitive in cartridges up to the 450 Watts Ackley Improved(blown out 458 Lott.) I personally have found the Krag cartridge to favor the slower powders to achieve accuracy and velocity, atleast my rifle. As always JM.02. Scot

[StarMetal]

I had spoke else where on the forum about Shooting Times April issue had a nice article on the Krag Jorgensen Model 1912. Here is a picture of it from a website not the one in the Shooting Times articles. What cannot be seen here is that it has a flat side bolt handle knob that is checkered. They also put the rear sight as far rearward for a longer sight radius, it's full stocked with a bayonet band around the entire forearm.

[swheeler]

Joe; nice rifle. I wouldn't mind having one just like it!

[runfiverun]

my krag likes to go bout 1900.

[StarMetal]

Joe; nice rifle. I wouldn't mind having one just like it!

I'd love to have that rifle, wow a Krag in 6.5X55.

Joe