Acquired two pounds of ?unknown? powder.

[Gunfreak25]

I have a paint can full of 2lbs of unknown ball powder (flattened balls it appears) . It's extremely finely granulated, and is still very fresh. In an effort to narrow down my list of what types of powder this may be, I did a weight test with some of it.

Using a LEE 4.3 CC powder dipper, I scooped up some of the powder, struck it level, and weighed it in an RCBS 505 scale. I measured 5 scoops of powder this way. Each coming out to exactly 62.3 grains of powder. I used this 62.3 grains as a reference. I then took my dipper chart out of the box, and went all the way down, looking at the list of weights for the 4.3 CC dipper. I then slid the card all the way from the left to the right, looking for a charge that was close to my 62.3 grains. I did this with both sides of the card, writing down which brand of powder it may be as I went along. This brought me to just 4 brands of powder It may be. Each within a tenth of a grain of my charges I dipped. They were H205,H380, NORMA 203, NORMA 201. This is just a rough estimate, there may very well be 10 different brands of other powers out there that come close to 62.3 grains in a 4.3CC dipper.

I am currently waiting for an email reply back from Hodgdon on if I can send in a small sample of powder for them to chemically test, to see if it matches a grade of any powder they may produce in their large line of powders.

If anyone here thinks they may be able to find out what it could be, or what it might be, I'd be happy to send them a very small sample (dime sized).

Chances are I will never use this powder. Even if I am given the answer as to what it may be.

[clearwater]

norma powders mentioned are stick powder

Some shotgun powders are small flattened ball w500 and 540 for example.
They would be very dangerous to use if you loaded them as if they were the speed
of H380.

[wiljen]

Density is not a good way to tell what you have as none of the non-canister stuff is listed on the charts and you may have powders with the same VMD and very very different burn rates. I'd use it to fertilize the garden myself.

[44mag1]

burn some next to something you think it is similar to. I wouldent use it but it would be interesting to try to find out what it is.

[Bert2368]

This is part of the reason every reloading guide I've ever read says to keep powder in original containers.

Another aspect is that the containers small lots of reloading powders are sold in are part of the reason you are allowed to treat it as a flammable solid rather than an explosive for shipping and storage. If you start using any handy container around, their behavior during a fire may surprise you. The behavior of a BATFE agent or DOT inspector who finds you casually storing/transporting it that way may also surprise you!

[Gunfreak25]

I had no intentions of ever using it for reloading. In fact I was going to give it to my grandfather for his lawn. Just thought it would be neat to see what it could possibly be.

[clearwater]

I had no intentions of ever using it for reloading. In fact I was going to give it to my grandfather for his lawn. Just thought it would be neat to see what it could possibly be.

I understand your curiosity. It is part of the fun in learning about reloading.

[Shiloh]

I had no intentions of ever using it for reloading. In fact I was going to give it to my grandfather for his lawn. Just thought it would be neat to see what it could possibly be.

Excellent Decision.

It goes a long way in contributing to the longevity of you being a fellow reloader and
shooter!! If it can't be determined absolutely 100% for sure, no use in having it around.

Shiloh

[mikenbarb]

Winchester 748 or BL-C types???. You may be able to round it down if you know what the previous owner was reloading with it. Try another sized dipper to see if you get the same results. Just a guess. It could also be from demilled Milsurp ammo.
Fertilizer no doubt.

[3006guns]

I was originally not going to post on this, but there IS a method of determining what the powder could be used for. I won't go into the procedure, but it's spelled out in Earl Narramore's book on reloading from the 1950's.

You're already two steps ahead, in that you know it's not black powder and is some sort of ball type. Narramore details a step by step method of testing its burn rate, giving it a known quantity so that it can be safely used. I've read this chapter several times and frankly you could figure out if an unknown powder was Bullseye without endangering yourself. No laboratory mortar needed, just common sense and the ability to understand what you're seeing.

No, I have NOT needed to use the process....but I wanted to make you aware that it exists for use by the reloader. After all, two pounds is two pounds!

[Bert2368]

3006guns-

I'd like to look at that procedure. Is it available on line? See my thread on the 60 lb. of samples from Western I'm researching a use for to see why I'm so interested.

A quick search on line shows one copy available. For $155.88, I don't think I can afford that right now.

[Wayne Smith]

ASSUMPTIONS! Always check your assumptions. So far everyone seems to be assuming that it is all ONE powder, that it's not mixed. I'd not want to bet very much on that assumption!

Fertilizer - you are right 25, it's a very good high nitrogen fertilizer! Don't put it on the garden, you will get all leaf and no fruit!

[3rptr]

3006guns,

I guess I can understand how you want to keep a secret from those of us who don't have the $150 bucks. Kinda fun to taunt people, now and then, isn't it?

And I don't mind saying, I personally feel it is wasteful to dump a couple pounds of good powder on the ground. I'm not a wimp, and don't expect to find a bunch of wimps here
with shooters.

Yup. I'm a newbie.

I'd feel a whole lot better about the whole thing if you'd step up to the plate and dscribe a potentially hazardous process you wouldn't advise for anyone who wasn't in dire straits and down to the last charge before the zombies over ran the perimeter.

Now, wouldn't that be better?

I'll mail you federal reserve nots for a xerox of the pages. Your disclaimer is included.

And I'd buy that couple pounds of powder if there wasn't a prohibitive hazmat involved.

None of you know me, I know little of you but your words.
When I pass, you could not imagine what my better half is gonna dump, because she doesn't like junk. She prefers things orderly, clean, and spotless. She'll win, in the end. Women do.

Yes, I pick WW's in the street, and brass at the range. I sluice for Au and pb when I find it in concentration. Waste is something contrary to my personality.

Best to you
3rptr

[3006guns]

Sorry I didn't get back sooner.......been putting up some .45 auto rim rounds.

The full title of the book is "Principles and Practices of Loading Ammunition" and I realized it was fairly rare when it fell into my hands. It's hardbound and close to 2 inches thick.

My reluctance to post the info really isn't so much about liability.......there's too damn much to type! I was fortunate in that the book was left to me by a dear friend when he passed on and it's a gold mine of info. Things you just don't find in current loading manuals. I've spent many an hour reading it and muttering "ah, yes......now I understand master".

So I tell you what.....if one of you will PM me with your mailing address, I'll xerox the chapter on id'ing unknown powders and send it to you. The process isn't mysterious...no alchemy involved. If, in your judgement, the technique has value to the forum it could be placed on here as a sticky or something......with a strong disclaimer to know what you're doing beforehand! Frankly, I'm thinking about using it to find out what River Valley Ordance put in those two gallon jugs I've got out in the garage............

[wiljen]

I have Naramore's 1943 Handloaders Manual in pdf format - I'll have to see if it covers that topic.

[Ricochet]

Wonder if GoogleBooks has scanned that one?

[3rptr]

I apologize for my short words... must have been near the bottom of the powder horn...

Will remember to take a fouling shot , next time at the bench.

3rptr

[rhead]

We get samples with questions like that rather often at the lab where I work. Everything from is this old dynamite still any good to why are the fish in my pond dieing? (Quality control lab in a oil refinery) They get very few volenteers to stay over for a few weekends of pro bono work just to answer someones curiosity. You have already stated that you have little or no intention of using it but would just like to know what it is before you dispose of it. Do you expect some of the workers at Hodgdon to work for free just so you will know what you are dumping in the garden? You could buy a couple of pallets of powder for what the testing you requested would cost.
Good luck on your quest.

[Gunfreak25]

Well about a week ago I sent a sample tube of the powder to a friend of mine. He reloads for over 80 different calibers and has all powders imagineable, even has a microscope and a book with different photo's of powder granules for identification.
After he came to the conclusion it was AA2250 powder, he loaded up 45 grains in a 7.62NATO shell and fired it. He said there were no high pressure signs, velocity was perfect and most of all the powder was extremely clean burning and is suitable for loading in any .308 type cartridge.

Glad I didn't throw it away then! I now have 2 perfectly good pounds of AA2250 powder. Which is a good thing because I have alot of nato brass that needs loading.

[rugerman1]

AA2230 or AA2520?