Is there some trick to getting tumble lube molds to produce useful bullets?

[gefiltephish]

I'm new to casting and reloading. I have 3 Lee 6 cavity molds (moulds?).
9mm 356-120-TC
.45 452-200-swc
.45 TL452-200-swc

So far I've made about 2200 9mm, and last weekend about 1400 45's from the single groove molds. All from wheel weights.

All molds have been boiled and cleaned with brake cleaner etc. The 2 molds that work, have no trouble with Frankford mold release. I've tried both smoking and mold release with all of them, and I'm back to smoking with the TL mold.

I'm having such a hard time getting anything useful out of the TL mold I'm about ready to chuck it. On rare occasion I'll get 1 perfect bullet and on even more rare occasions I'll get 2. I've tried altering the heat dial on the Lee 4-20 pot from 6 - 8. About 7 seems to work just fine with the other 2 molds. I've tried running the 2 45 molds together from the same pot of lead, fill one put it down to cool while filling the other. I'll get perfect bullets from the non TL mold and crap from the TL. I've tried using varying mold temps from cool to much too hot.

Is there some EXACT temperature that must be maintained? Do I need to mix in virgin pubic hairs and chicken bones? Did I just happen to get a retarded mold?

Yesterday I finally received an infrared thermometer that's been back ordered for a few weeks. It took me all of about 5 minutes to determine that it won't work on the shiny surface of molten lead. I just tossed into the pot, a piece of very dull cast steel to take readings off of. I'll try to see if I can narrow down the temps needed. I'm running out of patience and a sledgehammer is beginning to sound appealing to vent my frustration!

[mpmarty]

Strange. I've got several six cavity Lee molds and three of them are tumble lube type and they cast the easiest of all of them. Bullets fill out easier and drop free as I open the handles. I'd repeat the cleaning of the mold in question with lacquer thinner and then a very hot water wash with dish washing detergent. Heat the mold by resting it on the edge of the pot. Very lightly touch a bit of bullet lube stick to the sprue pivot bolt and the alignment pins and holes. Do Not Get Any Lube on the faces of the blocks or in the cavities. If you get lube on the faces the vent holes fill and the mold is useless. Lube in the cavities causes wrinkles and other problems too. Good luck.

[44man]

TL boolit molds can get too hot and mess up the bands. I just slow down with them. Seems as if a little frost is not good for them.

[gefiltephish]

Strange. I've got several six cavity Lee molds and three of them are tumble lube type and they cast the easiest of all of them. Bullets fill out easier and drop free as I open the handles. I'd repeat the cleaning of the mold in question with lacquer thinner and then a very hot water wash with dish washing detergent. Heat the mold by resting it on the edge of the pot. Very lightly touch a bit of bullet lube stick to the sprue pivot bolt and the alignment pins and holes. Do Not Get Any Lube on the faces of the blocks or in the cavities. If you get lube on the faces the vent holes fill and the mold is useless. Lube in the cavities causes wrinkles and other problems too. Good luck.

Oh yeah, I did clean it with lacquer thinner before I bolied it in soapy water. Then I hit it with the brake cleaner. I found out early on that a tiny speck of lube can, and will, migrate a country mile.

[gefiltephish]

TL boolit molds can get too hot and mess up the bands. I just slow down with them. Seems as if a little frost is not good for them.

I've tried cooling on water soaked towels when necessary as per Lee's instructions.

Those with any frost don't fill out at all. The whole bullet doesn't frost, just spots, usually in the groove area. I realized this afternoon that it appears that when the bands aren't filling out, it looks like it's limited to one mold half. It may look good 180 degrees around from one seam, then from the next seam on the fill out is not so good. I'll have to check if it's consistently the same mold side that's screwed up.

What I can't understand is why sometimes they're good?! Sometimes the cavities at the extreme ends produce good bullets while the inner ones make crap, or vice versa. Makes no sense to me. The inconsistency is driving me crazy.

[Dale53]

Sometimes a new mould is just simply contrary. Yesterday, I broke in a new "Big Lube" .45 Colt (200 gr RF) Lee six cavity mould. I used a toothbrush and liquid soap. I believe that the liquid soap I used was not agressive enough (next time I'll use brake cleaner first and then Dawn Dishwashing Liquid with a toothbrush). At any rate I bet I ran fifty casts before it started working. After that it was as if I could do no wrong. They ran perfect until my pot ran dry.

Just keep after it and you'll eventually get it to work. However, using a toothbrush and scrubbing it agressively with Dawn should help. Then rinse it thoroughly with VERY hot water. Dry off, pre-heat (I use a hot plate) and GO FOR IT!

Incidentally, Bullshop's Sprue Plate lube is the best mould lube EVER!!

Good luck!
Dale53

[Rich S]

with lee molds i find that you must use their stick lube as directed for the sprue plate and pins and no other.
i have had good luck with alcohol (denatured?) from the drugstore and a brand new toothbrush then smoke the molds (i use a bic lighter for this) be sure there is no lead blocking the vent lines , theyre cut into the mold face to allow air to escape. if you find you need to clear them out be very careful or you could damage the mold, of course sledge hammering can damage a mold too.
Good luck,
Regards,
Rich

[Maven]

Is there some EXACT temperature that must be maintained? Do I need to mix in virgin pubic hairs and chicken bones? Did I just happen to get a retarded mold?

gefiltephish, Maybe a bit of schmaltz will help, but if not here are a few suggestions. (1) Try casting at 780 deg. F initially, i.e., until you get perfect CB's and/or frosted CB's, then drop the temp. to 730 - 740 deg. (2) You may need to add a bit of tin to your alloy to lower its surface tension. (3) Try scrubbing the mold again with dish detergent and an old toothbrush and then smoke it with wooden matches. (4) If nothing else works, you may need to improve the venting of the mold. While it isn't rocket science, you don't want to carve (Xacto knife) or file away (jeweler's file/Swiss needle files) too much metal. (5) It's possible that the cavities need to be lapped with a fine compound such as Pearl Drops toothpaste or a slurry of Comet cleanser and oil (ATF is good.) Good luck and let us know how you fare.

[Lead melter]

Try rubbing that puppy on a BRASS wire wheel. A steel wire wheel will eat it in no time, but the softer brass seems to polish the burrs from the mold. Has worked for me several times. Just don't get too aggressive. A few light brushes will work wonders.

[gefiltephish]

Well, after much trial and error and lots of mold prepping, I was able to get some real nice looking bullets out of the TL mold today. But, what I'm not understanding is that the base band is slightly larger than the rest of the bands. Approx. .001" difference, sometimes a bit more. The single groove mold does the same thing. Is this normal?

The TL mold seems to be really sensitive to mold temperature and quite flexible on melt temp. Measuring the sprue plate with the infrared therm., 238 - 260 degrees produces good bullets except as mentioned above. Much above 260 produces frosties. Below 238 produces nice *looking* bullets, but only about .449 - .450 at the upper bands. This is with a melt temp of about 818 degrees (#7 on the dial). However, I suspect the infrared therm reading on a piece of steel floating on the surface is not the same as the typical analog type.

[ozzy1038]

I cast mine hot and they have come out great so far. Maybe try adding some tin.

[gefiltephish]

I cast mine hot and they have come out great so far. Maybe try adding some tin.

I have tried to locate tin locally, but the pickin's are slim. Best I could find at a plumbing supply was 60 lead/40 tin solder. Other than that, I pick out the harder shiny stick-on wheel weights that I can sink the dykes into, and hope that it's actually tin. Haven't noticed any improvement. I've already overspent my casting/reloading budget, else I'd order a few pounds of Lyman #2 or similar, just to see if my material is the problem. More likely, the next time I have some cash to spare, I'll get a couple pounds of tin bars.

[gefiltephish]

Try rubbing that puppy on a BRASS wire wheel. A steel wire wheel will eat it in no time, but the softer brass seems to polish the burrs from the mold. Has worked for me several times. Just don't get too aggressive. A few light brushes will work wonders.

After smoking, I use a very soft brass wire brush by hand to remove the carbon from the mold faces. Does a nice job.

[69daytona]

I had the smae problem and cast some bullets and then drilled a hole in the center and put a screw in it and used toothpaste as a lube/abbasive and spun the bullets on low speed with a drill to polish the cavities, then boiled and cleaned with brake cleaner and now the bullets come out perfect and drop right out.
Use the sprue hole for a pilot hole for the drill.
Good luck

[Rich S]

if you are using salvaged wheel weights i have heard that the last lead based wheel weights in this country were made a couple of years ago. google Zinc wheel weights, i came up with some useful info. (ex, often zinc weights are marked ZN)

[Recluse]

1. Check out the Lee-menting thread. Invaluable information and "how-to" regarding Lee moulds.

2. Get a regular dial thermometer that will measure up to 1000F. Forget the infrared. Fun toy, but not real practical for casting. Check out the industrial surplus on-line places. I used to have a link that I ordered mine from--a heavy, heavy duty thermomenter with a nice 3" dial that I paid less than $20 for brand new.

3. I always add a bit of tin when using my TL moulds. Gives me a little better fillout. Go to a hardware store and buy the cheapest 60/40 or lead-free solder you can find. Melt about six to eight inches in your 3/4's full pot of alloy. Flux and stir, then spread some kitty litter or old corncob or something to help reduce/slow oxidation.

4. Six-cavity moulds aren't the best thing for a brand new caster to cut their teeth with. Since you already have them, try just casting in two or three of the cavities. Technique can often times determine what quality of boolit you get.

[Ron B.]

Hello,
Very knowledgeable bunch of Casters here; great!

You wonder about maintaining a constant temperature "in your pot?" You won't. And, it's because you are constantly removing/adding lead of course. I regulate heat with my molds; always leaving my RCBS ProMelt rheostat dialed to 850-MAX. I keep a Casting Thermometer in my pot, but only because it's a prudent thing to do. I think you are on the right track, switching molds. You don't want any of them to get too hot. On the other hand, not too cold either. When I can sense the sprue on top the sprue plate taking too long to change tone of color, I know it's time to switch molds. I'll use one mold, until I began experiencing this; then, move on to my next mold. Often, I will have as many as 4 molds working. Of course, I use a separate metal bread pan, lined with a cloth to keep each design segregated. I trust you run all your finished bullets through a sizer? I stated this elsewhere, just moments ago. I never shoot any bullet which hasn't taken a ride through my Saeco Lube/Sizer. And yes, I lube my Lee tumblers. The results work well for me.

A couple more suggestions.
The more you use any mold, the better the mold becomes.

Keep you lead well stirred, adding flux every 3 to 5 minutes. The stuff's cheap enough.
I use several brands, from a candle stick, to FrankFord's, and Brownell. The results, no matter which is always the same.

Be careful; lead's hot!
GRB

[Willbird]

One thing on the TL bullets is that it is more difficult to SEE poor fillout in the TC section, they are rounded on top anyway, if you size the bullets you can see a dia difference that does not appear to the naked eye. I think poor fillout is why your base band measures larger then the TL section.

[ozzy1038]

Another thing to try would be make sure the lead goes through the center of the hole on the sprue plate. I tried hitting the side at first like lee says to do so it swirls in, but that didn't work so well for me. If I make sure the stream goes through the center of the hole I get a lot better fill out, and very few rejects.

FYI - I add 4oz of 60/40 solder to 10# WW ingots.

[gefiltephish]

if you are using salvaged wheel weights i have heard that the last lead based wheel weights in this country were made a couple of years ago. google Zinc wheel weights, i came up with some useful info. (ex, often zinc weights are marked ZN)

I am aware of the zinc and steel weights and weed out what I can find before smelting. Then I watch carefully over as low a flame as will work, and scoop the few non lead weight (floaters) that I missed earlier.