Stevens 44 What To Do

[JDHasty]

25-20 SS cases can be made by pressing 223 up into the neck of a 7mm die with an arbor press and a punch then turning the case ahead of the rim. There is a bit more to it, but I've only seen it done once and that is the part I remember. It's not an easy job, but that's about the only way to come up with a good supply of cases unless you are independently wealthy and like spending your money that way.

[Bent Ramrod]

Is that rifle missing the trigger and mainspring?

Another vote to redo to .25-20SS. The shells are out there, if you look for them.

[marlinman93]

So far I haven't seen any mention of which .25-20 the OP's rifle is yet? No sense in choosing a chambering until he says which it is.

[dverna]

It can handle medium level .38 Special, but what's to keep someone from chambering a .38 +P in it someday? I don't take chances when reworking old guns as no way to control how they're used after I'm gone.

Thanks for the information.

The OP mentioned going to .30 cal. Would the .32 S&W Long work?

[uscra112]

It can handle medium level .38 Special, but what's to keep someone from chambering a .38 +P in it someday? I don't take chances when reworking old guns as no way to control how they're used after I'm gone.

AMEN. Same for .25-20 WCF. Most factory WCF ammo is loaded to pressures that will cause a Model 44 to "shoot loose" in a hurry.

.25-20 Stevens cases can be made from .223, but it's an arduous process.

.25-20 Stevens dies are spendy.

If you watch the auction sites, once in a while .22 Lovell brass will turn up. That can be annealed and reformed back to its' parent .25-20 Stevens.

If you choose to breech seat your bullets, just ONE .25-20 Stevens case will last you quite a while. A 44 will breech seat the bullet with nothing but a plugged case, so you'd actually need two cases to get started.

A liner for .32 S&W Long would be a good bet. Plenty of brass, dies cheap. Don't even think about .32 Magnum, however.

[uscra112]

So far I haven't seen any mention of which .25-20 the OP's rifle is yet? No sense in choosing a chambering until he says which it is.

I've run across a 44 that had been .25-20 Stevens, but was rechambered for .25-20 WCF. As far as I know that's the only way to get one chambered for the WCF cartridge. The barrel has to be set back to do this.

[uscra112]

It's fairly easy to make inserts for a Lyman tong tool that will do the neck sizing, expanding and seating. Only die you'd have to buy would be the FL sizer.

Alternatively the inserts can be made to fit into the Lee "Universal Expander" (which it isn't) die body. Simple lathe parts anyone can make. I have drawings.

[dtknowles]

Thanks for the information.

The OP mentioned going to .30 cal. Would the .32 S&W Long work?

Seems like a good option, if not keeping it stock. Rebore or reline to .32 S&W long would make a nice rifle and ammo/components will pretty easy to come by for many years to come.

[snipin101]

Hey sorry haven't had a chance to get back on here. Yes the trigger is missing. I need a trigger and springs. With any luck this weekend I will get a chance to take it apart and see what is all missing but did look around online and found some places to buy action parts for it. When the lever is lifted fully into position the action is tight with no wiggle and is solid so I was happy to see that. I did run a brass brush down barrel and clean it. It's in awful shape, I'm talking cast iron sewer pipe inside kinda awful. I have done a ton of thinking about this gun the last few days. The barrel says 25-20 with nothing else behind it. So I have zero clue if it is chambered for ss or win. So here is my plan and hope I don't get thrown into the fire for it lol. I will figure out what action parts it needs and get them and get the action functioning as should. Then I will send the barrel and action and have it chambered for 25-20 wcf for the ease of brass and components. So tech it will be still be 25-20 as the barrel markings suggest. Then I will buy some stock and forearm for it and fit them and stain them myself. As for blueing I have no idea yet but have plenty of time to think about that. Have the tang drilled and tapped for tang sight and put a globe front sight and poof. I have a rifle I put my heart and soul into and did a lot of work on and something to be proud of. I have reworked some rifles and last year did a muzzleloader kit that took a lot of work to get it to my standards and feel I will do an ok job.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[JDHasty]

It's fairly easy to make inserts for a Lyman tong tool that will do the neck sizing, expanding and seating. Only die you'd have to buy would be the FL sizer.

Alternatively the inserts can be made to fit into the Lee "Universal Expander" (which it isn't) die body. Simple lathe parts anyone can make. I have drawings.

I would be inclined to have Lee make a custom Collett die and seat the bullets with a Vickerman.

[uscra112]

The gun is marked just .25-20 because Stevens never sold one for the WCF round, with good reason. (See below). The Stevens .25-20 predates the WCF version by several years, and even after the WCF version was introduced nobody needed to be told that except Winchester buyers. Winchester continued to chamber the 1885 for the Stevens round for a good many years, (the WCF cartridge was not as accurate), so Winchester invented the "Single Shot" appellation for 1886 barrels, because they'd be damned if they'd stamp a competitor's name on them.

Now, I strongly advise AGAINST the .25-20 WCF round. Typical breech thrust for .25-20 Stevens loads is in the 800-900 lbf. region. Most factory WCF ammo is loaded with jacketed bullets to modern varminter velocities, and those pressures produce as much as 2400 lbf. breech thrust. (I've done the math.) This is more than double what the old 44 can stand up to without "shooting loose" in very short order. You can tell yourself that it will never be used with anything but your carefully tailored cast-bullet handloads, but you can't guarantee it forever. In the late '30s Stevens sold some 44s for the Hornet, which generates only 1500 lbf. breech thrust, but they very quickly withdrew that chambering, because even at 1500 lbf. the guns didn't last long. There are guys in the ASSRA shooting benchrest with 10-inch-twist barrels and 105 grain cast bullets using the WCF case, and even those are more than advisable in a Model 44.

.25-20 Stevens brass is not unobtainium, and by the time you finish restoring the rifle you will have found some. If not, I will.

[uscra112]

I would be inclined to have Lee make a custom Collett die and seat the bullets with a Vickerman.

I kinda get the impression that he's not going to be shooting benchrest with it.

[1Hawkeye]

If the bore is a sewer pipe as you say I would send the barrel to Jes and have him turn it into a .32-20 you should be able to get the parts you need from Cpa they have quite a bit of model 44 parts as well as their 44 1/2 offerings.

[elmacgyver0]

I am glad to hear that you are going to do the cleanup work yourself.
It will give you a lot of satisfaction to have a project you do yourself.

[uscra112]

Have I ask you yet for the serial number so I can add it to my database? Then I can at least approximate its' date of manufacture.

[John Taylor]

Several years ago another shop sent me a 44 that they thought had been re-chambered to 25-20 WCF. When I cast the chamber I found it was a 256 Winchester, a little hot for a 44. I talked to the other shop about lining the barrel and gave them a price.They contacted the owner and he said he didn't want to put any money into it. I ended up buying it for a reasonable price and installed a 44-40 barrel on it. There were 44s chambered in 28-30, 32-40 and 38-55 with the latter two having a hammer block to keep the breach from going down. I don't know if the hammer block was ever needed but I have seen many 44s that were loose from shooting heavy loads. The factory loads for the 44-40 are 13,000 psi which is quite a bit lower than the 38-55 so I didn't see a problem with it and it shoots great. The 38 special factory loads are supposed to be around 16,000 so it should be OK also.

[marlinman93]

I had an original Stevens 44 that was factory chambered in .38-40 WCF. A lot of people told me if it wasn't already loose, it would be eventually. It was very tight, and after years of shooting it the gun never did shoot loose.

[uscra112]

I had an original Stevens 44 that was factory chambered in .38-40 WCF. A lot of people told me if it wasn't already loose, it would be eventually. It was very tight, and after years of shooting it the gun never did shoot loose.

An interesting datum, inasmuch as the breech thrust at 13kpsi would have been some 300 lbf greater than the .22 Hornets, which did shoot loose.

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Added: Looking at some recently generated pressure tests in the middle of the night, the answer may be that the black-powder .44-40 only generates 7200 psi, not 13,000. Which drops the breech thrust to a reasonable 1000 lbf. The .38-40 tested even lower. That test series did not, disappointingly, include the .32-40 or the .25-20 Stevens. It does include the .38-55, at 12400 psi, which is probably a decent stand-in. The .25-20 WCF loaded with black powder came in at 17150, which is high enough to reinforce my objection to it. Bottleneck cases do appear to boost black-powder pressure quite a lot.

[uscra112]

I don't know if the hammer block was ever needed but I have seen many 44s that were loose from shooting heavy loads. The factory loads for the 44-40 are 13,000 psi which is quite a bit lower than the 38-55 so I didn't see a problem with it and it shoots great. The 38 special factory loads are supposed to be around 16,000 so it should be OK also.

John, did I ever send you the draft article I wrote up based on Chuck Dietz's computer generated force-resolution diagrams? If not, I will. It explains a lot.

Phil

BTW at 16000 psi, the .38 Spl thrust is 1500 lbf. On par with the .32-40s for which Stevens supplied lugged hammers. But typical 800 fps target loads in the .38 are about half that, and would be fine.

As I've said many times, the gun won't blow up when loaded to 1500 lbf bolt thrust pressures, even 2000 lbf thrust. It just beats that poor little link to a bloody pulp, so the action doesn't lock up properly anymore, and headspace increases.

[MaLar]

I have one that I got as an action missing parts. Made my own stock and turned a barrel chambered it to 38LC. Made a 360 No 5 Rook of it virtually the same cartridge. It's a hoot to shoot.