Starrett lost a potential customer

[country gent]

I bought my gerstner Journeyman boxes around 1983, Mine are walnut. Gerstner used to offer oak walnut and cherry. Now it looks like only Oak. What I find unique is ladies will buy the older gerstner apprentice model, send them back for restoration and then use them for jewelry boxes.

While foreign tools are good I wonder how many will make the 3-4 generations like starret, browne and sharpe, lufkin. I have some Lufkins that were bought by my grandfather then my Dad and now me. One of the guys in gauge and layout told me the cheap tools would pass ISO inspection for a few years before failing. The above would pass for the whole carreer of the owner then some. Federal finger indicators would get sticky over time. And there were no replacement tips when the ball got a flat worn on it.
My starret junior mechanical indicator was made around 1900 and is still accurate and free moving. Even at 120 years old.

[georgerkahn]

when I was doing a lot of outboard rebuilding and block boring and honing I went though every major brand of snap gauges to get an accurate one that would not change a bit when turning the knurled knob to set the plungers. I settled on Mitutoyo. in the world of precision tools it really doesn't matter where it's made, what counts is how precise and well made the item is. am I'm one of the biggest proponents of not sending my dollars to china if at all possible and detest harbor freight. I'm currently contemplating buying a couple of the high quality tap wrenches and its either starrett or previously used ones off eBay made in USA, Greenfield, Union or LSI. those are the only options ive been able to find

While your choices (Starrett, Greendield, etc.) are GREAT ones -- my dad -- a tool and die maker -- professed his favourites being tools made by Brown & Sharpe. I have a few -- micrometers, indicators, and... tap wrenches made by them. I agree with my late dad -- actually re the two tap wrenches I have (and I do have Starretts, too) -- imho the Brown & Sharpe are the better.
geo

[nicholst55]

I had a Chinesium 'crescent' wrench fail me recently, and went looking for another made in USA replacement. Better hit Ebay and the pawn shops; the "good" ones are made in Spain, now. The forge(s) have shut down in this country.

[Electrod47]

There was a time when precision instruments were designed to be used by human craftsmen.....no need to say anymore.

[dverna]

I bought my gerstner Journeyman boxes around 1983, Mine are walnut. Gerstner used to offer oak walnut and cherry. Now it looks like only Oak. What I find unique is ladies will buy the older gerstner apprentice model, send them back for restoration and then use them for jewelry boxes.

While foreign tools are good I wonder how many will make the 3-4 generations like starret, browne and sharpe, lufkin. I have some Lufkins that were bought by my grandfather then my Dad and now me. One of the guys in gauge and layout told me the cheap tools would pass ISO inspection for a few years before failing. The above would pass for the whole carreer of the owner then some. Federal finger indicators would get sticky over time. And there were no replacement tips when the ball got a flat worn on it.
My starret junior mechanical indicator was made around 1900 and is still accurate and free moving. Even at 120 years old.

Great post.

I have Starrett micrometer my dad gave me when I graduated in Engineering 50 years ago. Today it would cost $150+. Mitutoyo's are less than half the price. For the hobby user, good enough is good enough.

It is bit like buying Snap-on tools vs Kobalt etc. Just how much better are they for the guy not using them everyday for a living.

[YoungGun88]

americans aren't even made in the usa anymore.

this

[country gent]

Times were like my family the tools were handed down from grandfather to father to son to grandchildren also as the sons followed in the fathers trade and a lot of times at the same shop or factory. In some shops tool boxes never changed just the person who had the key.

Starrett, Brown and Sharpe, Lufkin, and a few others. Then there were the local makers that made precision tools in every big city. Lufkins line of precision tool has been gone for years, as has Slocomb. Im afraid Starrett and Browne and Sharpe are going to follow and even the names will be gone.

One change in industry is most tool cribs have the measuring tools to be used and owing your own is becoming a luxury in a way. Now go and sign out the tool you need and return at the end of the day. The trades are changing in many aspects.

[dtknowles]

I can’t say that I blame you one bit , I hate being lied to. Hard to know what is and isn’t made in the U.S. anymore.

I feel that you must intended to deceive to be lying. Unintentionally spreading misinformation is not lying but it is bad form. If you know what you are saying is false that is lying. If you are lying certainly you will not try to make things right, your intent was to deceive. If you care about the truth then you would correct any misinformation you spread. Bearing false witness is a sin and a crime.
Tim

[Jeff Michel]

I was a fan of Brown and Sharpe until I purchased my last dial caliper from them.......Made in Brazil. Rack was all burred up, took it apart, stoned all the offending surfaces, used it for a month, kept jumping teeth and ended up going out in the chip barrel.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is the exact reason why I buy Generic Tools from Harbor Freight. When I found out Snap On was sourcing from China but still charging Snap On Prices,,, I was done.

I have several sets of Calipers, Tesa bought in 1978 used virtually everyday in my shop. An Identical B&S Caliper bought in the 1990s that is currently being rebuilt by my Instrument guy. I also have two Mitutoyo 12" calipers which I also use virtually day. I rate the Mits as just behind the Tesa which is now 48 years old !

My First Calipers were Starrett, they had an Open Rack so they got dirt and chips in the works. They were sold at a swap meet for almost what I paid for them new because the guy "thought" they were the good stuff? Who was I to argue with him a certified Harley Mechanic?

I have Tesa and Etalon Micrometers and they are the best there are, but I got them at auction for a lot less than new price which I never could afford. I have 0-9 Etalons which would have been about $3000 worth when I got them in the 1990's I paid $500 for the whole set and only the 0-1 had been used. I have never used the 8-9" or a couple of others and the rest have only seen very little use. IE: they are all new!

If I was going to start a machine shop nowadays I'd buy Mitutoyos as they are good and still reasonably priced.

I am sick of Name Brand outfits "outsourcing to China" and putting their good name on those inferior products.

I can buy a Large Combo Wrench at HF for <$20 whereas the name brand will be over $100 and won't do anything better, and turns out it is made in the same factory as the HF Tools are!

My .02

Randy

[Green Frog]

I bought my gerstner Journeyman boxes around 1983, Mine are walnut. Gerstner used to offer oak walnut and cherry. Now it looks like only Oak. What I find unique is ladies will buy the older gerstner apprentice model, send them back for restoration and then use them for jewelry boxes.

Somehow I got on Gerstner's mailing list and get an email ad from them about once a week or more. Anyway, they are advertising American made and "International" or foreign made at somewhat lower prices. They also list seconds from time to time. Another thing, they now make boxes in a much wider variety of styles including jewelry boxes, portable bars, shooting boxes, etc. Also, they do still offer a variety of woods and unless I'm mistaken even offered the leatherette covering on a special edition box recently.

Froggie

[JRLesan]

Bust your knuckles (or worse) just once with cheapo tools and buying quality ones with a higher price tag will make a whole lot more sense...

[Green Frog]

Bust your knuckles (or worse) just once with cheapo tools and buying quality ones with a higher price tag will make a whole lot more sense...

Unfortunately, price alone is no indicator of quality. If you read through this thread, there are lots of instances of the cheapening of name brand tools… caveat emptor!
Froggie

[farmbif]

its a world wide economy. do a little bit of looking into where machines are made these days. only a few lathes and mills are made in USA and ones coming out of tiawan and other countries are used in many of our factories and shops. South Bend lathes are not made here any more. Bridgeport mills are assembled and finished here from what I understand but the parts and pieces are made over seas, in England there is a plant producing Bridgeport mills. Wells Index is the only manufacturer making mills in USA. Ive got an old 845 at m y moms place that need rebuilding and Wells index will completely rebuild the top half, new quill and all, for about $5000, awesome.

[M-Tecs]

Not Manual but Haas claims to be US made. Not sure if that includes the electronics?

[uscra112]

The forge(s) have shut down in this country.

Ditto foundries...thanks to over-regulation by the EPA. Don't get me started.............

[country gent]

Machineing shops are even getting hit by the epa do to the oils, coolants,and solvents being deemed hazardous materials.

[uscra112]

Right. I went to buy some Tap Magic a few months ago, and found that the name has been applied to a "green" formulation because of EPA and/or OSHA. You CAN still get the original formula if you search hard enough, so I bought two just in case it disappears altogether.

[uscra112]

BTW a year or two ago I bought a new Fowler mike, the kind with the mechanical digital readout. Fowler used to be mostly Swiss, but this one came from China. In all fairness, it is well made, can't distinguish it from the older ones, and it checks very well against my jo-blocks.

[country gent]

Watch out for the Tap Magic ultra thick it will discolor and cause rust. The old tap magic ( peppermint water) would when used on stainless.

One of the best I have found is anchor lube its a great high pressure cutting lube. Get yourself a 2 ounce trial bottle and give it a try. If you contact and ask for one they will send it free.
Try finding the sulfur black oils now.