Lead ammo ban in Wisconsin

[35 Rem]

Whether the anti-gun looneys are thinking this through with a final objective of a total ban on all lead bullets for any purpose or not, doing it one step at a time and starting with hunters 1st will eventually get there. And if all ammo goes to the solid monolithic copper alloy bullets, then shooting is basically dead because of the cost. Sure, the cost doesn't matter for Barnes TTSX bullets when used only for hunting but if that was all you had for all your guns then it gets into some serious money. Few are going to go to the range and shoot 50 or 100 rounds every month of even a couple times a year with such expensive ammo.

[Charlie Horse]

What are you suppose to squirrel hunt with?

[dverna]

What are you suppose to squirrel hunt with?

There are 4 companies making lead free .22 LR that I know of. Norma, Winchester, CCI and Federal...might be more.

I saw one report on the Norma stuff and it did not shoot well at all. 1.5" groups at 50 yards.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

It would affect me greatly. All my deer hunting is with a traditional flintlock with a slow rifle twist. I don't think there would be any way to get a copper bullet to stabilize. .

[dverna]

It would affect me greatly. All my deer hunting is with a traditional flintlock with a slow rifle twist. I don't think there would be any way to get a copper bullet to stabilize. .

Rotometals makes an alloy that will work. Bismuth alloy IIRC.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Rotometals makes an alloy that will work. Bismuth alloy IIRC.

I hope it doesn't pass. But if it did - we would have to hope that it didn't include some language requiring ammo to be from an approved manufacturer i.e. you can't just cast your own.

[BJung]

I recently discovered sabots for BPR loads. For example, there are 50cal sabots that use 45 copper bullets. I don't know how accurate they are though.

I've read in threads a year ago that Roto-metals was offering it's non-lead material for casters to try out. Has anyone tested this metal?

I've heard air gun shooters using their rifles to hunt with. Maybe there is a loophole where air rifles are not firearms so the lead pellets subject to CA Law? I don't know, just throwing this out there.

[Barry54]

Wasn’t there a thread on this site a while back about a 20? Caliber rimfire cartridge based on the 22 LR brass without the heeled bullet, that was better suited to lead free? Most everyone was bashing it. What was it called?

[35 Rem]

I wonder how many game departments would recognize a powder coated bullet as being lead underneath the pretty outer coating? Most hunters/game wardens have no idea what portion of the cartridge the bullet even is. I bet that most of the time you could powder coat with some metalic color and use cast bullets indefinitely.

This same issue comes up when a game department outlaws "solids" and cast shooters start getting extremely analytic about hardness of their cast bullets and at what BHN they transition from "soft points" to "solids". I don't think ANY game warden is going to give that degree scrutiny to a bullet. They would simply look at the ammo and see that it either does or does not have a full metal jacket.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with shooters using their voice to fight these nutty laws. They can be used against all gun owners by demonizing lead as the material for any bullet and not just for hunting.

[elmacgyver0]

The end game is getting rid of civilian held guns, if that can't be done directly then it will fall to getting rid of the ammunition.

[45_Colt]

Wasn’t there a thread on this site a while back about a 20? Caliber rimfire cartridge based on the 22 LR brass without the heeled bullet, that was better suited to lead free? Most everyone was bashing it. What was it called?

IIRC, it was the 21 Sharp.

45_Colt

[dverna]

IIRC, it was the 21 Sharp.

45_Colt

Correct.

It has been so popular, guns and ammunition are impossible to get.

[HumptyDumpty]

There was probably already a post about this a few weeks ago when it was proposed, but Minnesota is proposing something similar. Except in the case of Minnesota (to my understanding), the ban would be on lead for hunting, lead for shooting sports, and lead for all commercial ranges. I haven't seen anything about public comments, but I remember reading an article that quoted one of the proponents of the bill citing the "dire health and environmental consequences of lead use." I think I even saw someone quoted saying that lead exposure leads to various disorders in youth including decreased attention spans.
Personally, I would think that being involved in shooting sports and reloading and casting specifically would tend to require one to increase their attention spans, but what do I know...

I'm pretty sure it has more to do with parents shoving tablets into the hands of toddlers. These kids are addicted to glowing screens, endless video clips, and social media, nearly from the womb.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I see you do not have to be a resident of Wisconsin to voice your opinion. You just cannot be anonymous, you have to supply name and address.

So if you hunt or fish in Wisconsin or may in the future - this survey is for you. You have to wade through other questions, but you can check “no opinion” if you want to speed through it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Once California initiated it's ban on lead hunting bullets, any bullets used for hunting must be tested and placed on an approved list for them to be considered legal. Even if you cast your own bullets out of zinc or tin, you'd still have to pay the state to test your cast bullets to have them placed on the approved list. This wouldn't make ALL the bullets cast from that material, in that mold style, legal for hunting - just your own cast bullets. Unless you were a bullet manufacturer or distributor I would assume that getting your own bullets tested and approved would be cost prohibitive. The way I solve these problems is to drive for hundreds of miles and cross over an imaginary line to hunt in another state.

It doesn't cost anything to get your Non Lead Boolits put on the CA Approved List. I got my Brass Slugs R Us (Pre Leon) Shotgun Slugs approved in about a week. They are on the "Approved List" and I have never sold even one of them or used them for hunting,,, But I can.

I got mine in by calling the Head Fish and Wildlife guy for the Central Coast, "Todd Tognazzinni." (Ask me how I remember that name?) and he sent me directly to the person who took care of it.

The hot tip for Hunting in CA is to just buy some Non Toxic Bullets from an "approved source" and load them yourself, or buy approved loaded ammo. A box of loaded ammo for your chosen Rifle should last you for many hunts. Also don't carry any more than about 5 rounds into the field.

Randy

[dverna]

Randy, I had noticed your slugs were on the CA list and wondered what hoops you had to go through. Thanks for posting your experience.

I am against a lead bullet ban but like I posted earlier, I could deal with it without too much pain. A box of Barnes copper bullets to work up a hunting oad and two boxes for checking zero and hunting every year will be a lifetime supply for this old man. $150 is not the end of the world. Shooting varmints would get costly.

Even CA does not ban lead bullets for target shooting but I fear that would be the next step. Lead free alloy from Rotometals is $15/lb. Their prices are typically much higher than other suppliers for alloy, but even at $10/lb, shooting will be prohibitively expensive. Zinc bullets would meet the lead-free standard, but we would need to learn to cast/load them. Zinc would be OK for target shooting.

[white eagle]

what are they trying to do end hunting in Wisconsin?
So what is the problem with lead?
Does it come from outer space? If I recall they mine it out of the earth so what's the problem with putting it back?

[fredj338]

They did it n kommifornia on public lands. They claim it kills birds of prey but anyone that hunts know's that is BS.They just want us to not hunt.

[murf205]

They did it n kommifornia on public lands. They claim it kills birds of prey but anyone that hunts know's that is BS.They just want us to not hunt.

Did anyone ever document a real world instance of a California Condor (or any other wildlife for that matter) eating a lead boolit, much less dying from that?

[dondiego]

Did anyone ever document a real world instance of a California Condor (or any other wildlife for that matter) eating a lead boolit, much less dying from that?

I believe that lead contamination was verified in dabbling ducks that frequented heavily shot over areas.