Wadcutter and SWC accuracy

[BJung]

Is a 38-148WC any more or less accurate that 357-148WC at 50 yards?

Would the 158 SWC be the next most accurate target bullet for a .357mag after the 148wc?

[Rapidrob]

1ST question, No.
The 158 would buck a slight breeze a little better than the 148 grain. The big diff would be in the type of WC the bullet is. A Double end'er or a hollow base WC.
The HB would be more accurate as it would be a longer bullet for its weight as well as obdurating in the bore providing a better gas seal and rifling engagement.
I shot for the Navy and the State of Maryland many thousands of WC's out of .38 AMU* 1911 pistols and target revolvers.
The HBWC was the most accurate hands down as long as the load did not blow the bullets skirt out due to a too hot load.
I did and still do, seat the bullet just below the case mouth and roll crimp the bullet into place. This allows feeding in any semi-auto pistol as well allowing the powder pressure to overcome the roll crimp and create a constant bullet "pull".
* .38 Super 1911 converted to .38 Special wad cutter only by the Army Marksmanship Unit's design and done later by BOMAR and BARSTOW for conversion and target sights. I still have one.
I also still use a very large progressive loading press solely for reloading .38 WC ammunition that was converted by the US Army gunsmiths.

[gwpercle]

You can also look at the 38 AMU as a 38 special case with no rim and an extractor groove cut for semi-auto use .
The guns built for them were pretty danged awesome ...
Gary

[405grain]

I load the RCBS 38-148-WC in both 38 Special and 357 mag. I shoot these rounds in a Ruger Security Six, and see no difference in accuracy between the two. That said, rarely, if ever, would I be shooting beyond 30 yards. 50 yards is kind of a long shot for a wadcutter. With 158 grain semi-wadcutters I have on occasion taken potshots at a 6" gong target at 100 yards and hit the mark about 1/3 of the time. This is "goofing off" shooting, as neither the 148 WC or 158 SWC was ever intended for "long range" shooting. Yes, once in a while someone like Elmer Keith will come along that can hit targets at ridiculous ranges with a hand gun, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

[Mk42gunner]

My opinion only, but I think the make of gun, therefore the twist rate of the barrel will have more effect on WC/SWC accuracy than the difference between a revolver chambered in .38 Special vs. one in .357 Magnum.

Robert

[blackthorn]

My opinion only, but I think the make of gun, therefore the twist rate of the barrel will have more effect on WC/SWC accuracy than the difference between a revolver chambered in .38 Special vs. one in .357 Magnum.

Robert

I know .38's can be fired in guns chambered for the .357. Do .357 guns have different twist rates than those designated.38? Is there any published list(s) of what firearms have what twist rate?

[Rapidrob]

The Wad-cutter only pistols were capable of very good accuracy out to 50 yards, both in rapid fire and slow fire. Recoil is very light and recovery time is almost never an issue.
The fired cases drop to you feet so you don't need a "Brass-Magnet" to find them.
My revolver used was a Ruger Security-Six, which I still have and as you owners know, they too are very accurate. I carried mine on Nuclear Weapons Security watch for many years.
Modified .38 super magazine



Adjustable fore end weight for rapid fire legs.




One of my 25 yard rapid fire targets when shooting for the Maryland State team in the 80's.


Here is a roll-crimp wad-cutter, I have never had a FTF by doing this.




The Ruger Security-Six 4" revolver. It will always be with me.

[Mk42gunner]

I know .38's can be fired in guns chambered for the .357. Do .357 guns have different twist rates than those designated.38? Is there any published list(s) of what firearms have what twist rate?

Good question blackthorn. To my knowledge, no individual maker uses a different twist for their own revolvers in .38 Special and .357 Magnum. I may have poorly worded my first reply in this thread.

However different manufacturers can use different twists for the same cartridge. Speaking only for the .38/.357 revolvers, IIRC S&W uses 18 3/4:1 while Colt used 14:1, and I do not remember what Ruger used. I also have no clue what Rossi/Taurus uses.

Robert

[Rapidrob]

Ruger .357: 18.75:1

[M-Tecs]

With faster twist WC hold accuracy at 100 yards. Smolts came about due to this. With a 10 twist the 148 WC's do very well at longer distances than most would believe.

The Fouling Shot has a couple of good reads. They were referred to me by a member here. FS 258 has initial article by Bill Duncan referencing his shooting wadcutters at 200 yards.
FS 271 is the follow-up out of a fast twist barrel.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Rapidrob, almost right.
Ruger DA 357’s use 1:18.75.
Ruger SA 357’s use 1:16.
Yep weird.

[Rapidrob]

A slower twist will produce a lower chamber pressure than a faster twist ( less resistance for the bullet to travel down the bore ). This in theory, should produce less recoil.
For double action rapid firing, this would be better for follow-up shots. An interesting premise if this was Ruger's design for the revolvers.

[StrawHat]

I competed in PPC. The standard load was the 148/150 grain wadcutter over 2.7-.28 grains of Bullseye. The reason it was the standard load? It shot great and had minimal recoil.

If you want a SWC boolit, 358156 is one to consider. A fellow named Skeeter Skelton published a great load for magnum revolvers in 38 S&W Special cases. His comment was, “…as accurate as wadcutters…”. I read and reread that statement many times. I also loaded thousands of that load for my Magnums and my S&W Heavy Duty. Well, I took enough of those rounds to fire a PPC Match, just to disprove his point. Guess what? He was right! That load is as accurate as my wadcutter ammunition just with more boom and recoil. An added advantage, the competitors near me on the line jumped a bit when they went off, their scores were lower. Enough so, they complained to the judges.

So, if you want a SWC load that is accurate, consider 358156.

Kevin

[gwpercle]

A good 50 yard wadcutter bullet is the Lyman 358432 - 160 gr.. NOE now makes this sweet design
NOE # 360-160-WC-PB (360432) !
Lyman made two weights with the same mould number ... a 148 gr. and a 160 gr .
They both have a crimp groove below a top driving band and are not seated flush but stick out the case and look more related to a SWC ... They look like a Wide Flat Nose before WFN's were invented .
That boolit loaded in a 38 Special case ... or 357 magnum case
with start - 3.0 grs. @ 712 fps ... up to ... Max - 3.5 grs. @ 880 fps ... Bullseye ...
Will give you some tack-driving 50 yard loads .
That flat nose hits hard also !
Gary

[MT Gianni]

A round nose may be the most accurate but it doesn't cut paper cleanly. That makes it harder to score and less likely to get a point for cutting a line giving you a 10 instead of a 9. It also slips through flesh without much disruption so there are plenty of reasons to avoid it. What are you trying to shoot at 50 yards?

[BJung]

I have a lot of 38 and .357 brass. My 38-148WC groups are pretty decent and if the .357-148WC groups the same, why should I use the .357 brass for a 148WC, I think. Instead, I'll use 158SWC. Maybe the Lee 158WC with gas check as a 50 yard load? I don't have this mold yet but have the RNFP. The NOE has my interest as a 50 yard, .357 target load but I'm leaning towards the 158gr GC 6-Cavity mold.

[mehavey]

Just make sure to regularly clean out the cylinders after a lot of 38 brass -- prevent
carbon buildup at the mouth of the shorter case leading to 357 chambering problems.

[racepres]

Just make sure to regularly clean out the cylinders after a lot of 38 brass -- prevent
carbon buildup at the mouth of the shorter case leading to 357 chambering problems.

And...I broke down and bought one of those SliXcrapers, for one Revolver that I let get pretty bad!!!!

[Wooserco]

With faster twist WC hold accuracy at 100 yards. Smolts came about due to this. With a 10 twist the 148 WC's do very well at longer distances than most would believe.

The Fouling Shot has a couple of good reads. They were referred to me by a member here. FS 258 has initial article by Bill Duncan referencing his shooting wadcutters at 200 yards.
FS 271 is the follow-up out of a fast twist barrel.

A number of years ago, a fellow High Power shooter was commenting about the handgun accuracy of a mutual friend, shooting a handgun. He could put shots in the black on the 200 yard NRA High Power target at 200 yards.

One Saturday, after our normal club CMP shooting, he laid on his back, forearms resting on his knees and proceeded to put 10 of 12 shots not only on target, but in the black. All twelve shots could be scored. It was a windy day, so that made it that much more impressive.

His bullet, a Lee Semi wadcutter gas checked.

He's the same man that beat me at 600 yards shooting MY rifle, my loads at Saturday afternoon practice. I was feeling pretty good after shooting 17 tens or Xs. He proceeded to beat me with a clean 200 at 600 yards.

Joel, may you rest in peace.

[Rapidrob]

If lead does build up on the forcing cone, the Lewis Lead Remover is one of the best cleaning tools ever made.