Terrible 44 mag rifle groups

[wallacem]

I had a NEF 44 mag rifle for years that shot very good groups with almost everything I stuffed in it. Sold it and picked up a new CVA single shot rifle in 44 mag. Group size is bad with everything. I am getting the best groups with 260 and 300 gr cast bullets sized 4.32" They are around 2.5" at 50 yards. EVERYTHING else, including several factory loads is grouping 3-6" at 50 yards. I have tried full power, very low power, mid power, and nothing works. The only difference I know is my NEF was a 1 in 38" twist, and the CVA is 1 in 20" twist. Tell me what to do.

[Kestrel4k]

The most accurate 44Mag load I have ever shot is the Hornady LE 225gr FTX factory load; this does honest 1" 5-shot groups at 100 yds from my Ruger 77/44 (1:20" twist rate).
Also less than a half-inch at 50yds from my Marlin 336-44 (1:38" twist rate); I have evaluated multiple lots of this ammo and it is extremely consistent.

The Standard Deviation I had recorded when I was evaluating that load in the Ruger, was /seven/ fps - extremely consistent for a 1760 fps loading.
That ammo is also commonly available; I would try that as a benchmark. Please keep us updated,

[versa-06]

Howdy wallacem; I bought a Henry 44 with a 1:20 twist & did the same thing. I took some JB bore cleaner (kinda gritty) & hand lapped the barrel with many, many strokes. Then cleaned the barrel with Hoppes' #9 to get the grit out, then dry patched it til clean. Worked for me, Maybe for you? -06

[white eagle]

I think your problem is with CVA
they have had a terrible muzzleloaders that they sold
may be the same with their other rifle as well

[elmacgyver0]

This is called Karma, pay back for selling the NEF.
Unless you are in the business, never sell guns.

[Bass Ackward]

I am getting the best groups with 260 and 300 gr cast bullets sized 4.32" They are around 2.5" at 50 yards. EVERYTHING else, including several factory loads is grouping 3-6" at 50 yards. I have tried full power, very low power, mid power, and nothing works.

Sounds like the “classic” long throat. The beauty of a single shot is you aren’t tied to overall length. The longer bullets are still in the case to aid with centering. So seat out until you are just off the lands and see what happens.

[Hannibal]

A chamber cast and bore slugging will provide the definitive reason if you're willing to go to the effort.

[Tripplebeards]

One, it could be your trigger, two, it could be your crimp. I had horrible groups in my 77/44 till I started using the lee factory crimp die. The crimp style took my same loads with 4 to 6 inch plus groups to sub MOA.

[Jadkins87]

We have a cva hunter/Scout in 44mag and shoot the Barnes vortex all cooper 225grain thru it for deer hunting for the kids. it shoots amazing 1inch or under all day. my son at 9 could put 4 inside a quarter at 75 yards. We have tried a unknow semi wad cutter with copper jacket and they was all over the place. Hope to try something new this year with it the barnes cost to dang much..

God Bless

JDAS

[Hannibal]

One, it could be your trigger, two, it could be your crimp. I had horrible groups in my 77/44 till I started using the lee factory crimp die. The crimp style took my same loads with 4 to 6 inch plus groups to sub MOA.

That would be most unusual but since I wasn't there I'll take your word for it.

I would tend to suspect a bad crown or inconsistent bore diameter in that order.

[wallacem]

Thanks so far guys. I am giving full thought to each comment. Any more? Wallacem

[GhostHawk]

I'm with Hannibal, I'd start with a chamber cast and work from there.

After I learned about pound casts here I have not slugged a barrel. a good chamber cast gives you the exact information you need to make a rifle shoot.

Including size of boolit required. (which is where I suspect your problem is) how long to seat it so it is just a hair off the rifling.

Just because they call a mold .430 does not mean that is what it is actually dropping with your alloy.

Start with a chamber cast, figure boolit size = groove depth + 2 thousandths at least. So if groove mics .430 you want cast at least .432.

[cwtebay]

You may try seating a bullet long in an empty case to chamber and get chamber length. It may be a crazy long chamber as noted above and the free bore is contributing to the accuracy issues.

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[steve urquell]

I have a CVA V2 in .300blk. It is very accurate with a nice factory trigger. Having one I have read every thread about them for years and the .44mag has always been the one most people have accuracy problems with.

Someone on anothe forum said they contacted CVA about them and was told they recommended the 300gr Hornady XTP. They loaded some and went from 8" groups to 1.5".

Many threads out there on this issue makes me think this rifle will shoot but is very picky about what it eats.

[725]

As above, slug the barrel and shoot cast +.002. A clean barrel goes w/o saying. Have yo tried the Lee 310? good luck

[mike salyards]

How is your barrel doing for leading? I recently purchased a new Ruger Marlin lever action in 44 mag I've had better groups and no leading with copper jacketed bullets but when I switch to a 300 grain gas check bullet I ended up doing a little mining and had some real crummy targets I'm fooling with some other bullets now that are copper jacketed and we'll go from there. There are so many variables to play with when shooting lead bullets.

[Hannibal]

As above, slug the barrel and shoot cast +.002. A clean barrel goes w/o saying. Have yo tried the Lee 310? good luck

When I brought up slugging I also meant to check to the entire length for tight/lose spots and to make sure the bore diameter doesn't increase toward the muzzle.

Any of those 3 problems can cause a lot of grief.

I had a Henry .357Mag that shot similarly to what the OP described. When I slugged the bore I found 4 tight spots. On at the stamping for the caliber, one at each of the sight dovetails and one at the dovetail for the magazine tube.

No more Henry rifles for me.

Just about any rifle will shoot 2 MOA unless there is a significant problem. That Henry was ridiculous given the cost.

[DougGuy]

Can't believe no one has mentioned fit to the throat this far in the thread! Yes a chamber cast or slugging the throat area at least will tell you what boolit diameter will fit the throat.

[Hannibal]

I'd suspect a bigger problem than throat fit if it's puking out 3"-6," groups at 50 yards. Perhaps a combination of problems.

Again, slug the full length of the bore and make a chamber cast. Otherwise you're just pitching ideas up on the wall and hoping something sticks.

[Nobade]

My Marlin 44 mag does the same thing, and it's a result of the very large and long throat and the .433" groove diameter. Normal 44 loads just don't work. So I use it one of two ways, for low power shooting I load soft lead bullets and black powder. .430" bullets will bump up to fill the throat and shoot great. For high power loads I size bullets to .427" and paper patch them up to .433 - .434. Just use whatever fits nicely in a fired case. Then I seat them out long, to touch the rifling and load with a whole lot more powder than a normal 44 mag, basically 445 Supermag loads since I now have the case capacity. Of course I can't use the rifle as a repeater like this, but it is fantastically accurate and quite powerful, with less than half the drop at 200M as a regular full power 44 mag load. I also suspect, though I haven't tried it, a bullet like the one Ranch Dog designed for the 357 leverguns, with a short nose and long body to fill the throat would work also and with normal loads.