So, newbie but not newbie

[armoredman]

Da Boy was asking about shooting my revolvers with black powder cartridges. The Uberti SAA probably would handle them Ok, but I'm not sure I want BP fouling in a modern wheelgun. He has cut his teeth on BP already, having his custom rifle and pistol, and having shot my BP revolvers;







So, he knows what it's like. I countered with maybe buying a cartridge conversion revolver, like the 1860 Mason versions, (reproduction of course!), and he said why not just get the 45 Colt conversion cylinder for the Uberti New Model Army, and shooting black powder cartridges because the gun was designed for black powder. I can't fault that logic!
By now you are asking, where the heck does all this rambling go...the point is I have plenty experience loading modern cartridges, and with black, even making paper cartridges for the New Model Army, (not MUCH experience, but I can make them work), but I have absolutely ZERO experience loading black powder cartridges of any kind. So, I ask thee, how good are the conversion kits, is it worth the money, would the factory conversions be a better idea, and if I were to load BP in brass, what load works best for a 45 Colt in your experience, for nothing but playing at the range?
We are just in the "playing with the idea" phase right now, BUT the tax refund means I might be able to afford something if I can find it at a decent price.
Thank you for your time and attention.

[veeman]

Colt SAA's shot black powder for nearly 4 decades before smokeless powders cames along. And that was with weaker steels than we have now. They are safe.

[jdfoxinc]

A colt cartridge will hold just less than 30 gr of 3f. You want the bullet to sit on the powder, no air space.

[armoredman]

Yes sir, I understand it's safe in a good modern revolver, I was just looking for suggestions - is there specific equipment I need other than my regular reloading gear, and like mentioned about no air space, tips to keeping it fun and safe. So 29gr of FFFG is a good one for 45 Colt, good start right there. Sorry, I know, just a newbie, ask lots of dumb questions. Thank you for your replies.

[Wayne Smith]

It totally depends on how much precision you want. Those who are shooting long range BP use compression, I used some compression in my 44-40's when I was loading them with BP. You do want some compression just to make sure settling does not create air space. I was surprised at how powerful BP is.

I made my compression die out of an old seat die, used the seat stem filled with epoxy and filed flat as the compressor. It worked fine.

[armoredman]

It would just be for range blasting, maybe 50 yards max. Thank you all for your help. Might get that conversion cylinder when they come back in stock.

[35 Rem]

Aren't there powder droppers made specifically for black powder? Seems I've seen that somewhere and its related to static? I'm in the same boat, have fooled with guns all my life but no experience at all with loading cartridges with black powder. As much as it tempts me every time I see the Lone Ranger blasting big clouds of smoke over Silver's head with his Colt SAA I just can't imagine having all that corrosive soot all over and inside my guns.

[indian joe]

Aren't there powder droppers made specifically for black powder? Seems I've seen that somewhere and its related to static? I'm in the same boat, have fooled with guns all my life but no experience at all with loading cartridges with black powder. As much as it tempts me every time I see the Lone Ranger blasting big clouds of smoke over Silver's head with his Colt SAA I just can't imagine having all that corrosive soot all over and inside my guns.

make a scoop measure out of an old brass case, just cut / file it down to the right level (about 36 grains I would guess - thats what I load in my 44/40)

it always intrigues me how you 'mericans dislike cleaning your guns so much - black powder is an easy clean

[WRideout]

I started out loading black in my Nagant pistol just because I had some powder I needed to use up. Put in enough powder to bring it up to the bottom of the boolit, as normally seated, then seat and crimp like normal from there. It was surprisingly easy to work with and seemed powerful enough. Be sure to bring a jar of soapy water to drop the cases in; brass gets really cruddy.

In Elmer Keith's book Sixguns he recommended that beginners loading for center fire pistols use black powder since it was easier to measure.

Wayne

[JSnover]

Aren't there powder droppers made specifically for black powder? Seems I've seen that somewhere and its related to static? I'm in the same boat, have fooled with guns all my life but no experience at all with loading cartridges with black powder. As much as it tempts me every time I see the Lone Ranger blasting big clouds of smoke over Silver's head with his Colt SAA I just can't imagine having all that corrosive soot all over and inside my guns.

I suppose there are but I've never used one. The odd thing is I notice more powder 'clinging' to the inside of the measure when I load smokeless; as if BP is less likely to accumulate static in the first place.
Anyway, BP fouling has never bothered either of my 45-70s or my M1894 .357 years ago just for the heckuvit. Never had a problem. You just have to clean your guns properly and even that isn't rocket science or witchcraft.

[freakonaleash]

I like 2ff in 45 colt.

[armoredman]

I think I have some home made 2F, but my factory powder is all 3F. Conversion cylinder should be in tomorrow, and sizing die should be here maybe the next day. So this weekend I will powdercoat some of the 255gr Lee FP I cast up and see how it goes.
So, no air space is key - fill the case with enough powder to get a little "crunch" when loading the bullet. I'll try 29gr of 3F to start.
As for cleaning, black powder is VERY easy to clean, as far as I am concerned, and using the Remington New Model Army clone, a revolver already made for black, that should make it even easier.

[freakonaleash]

You're going to need a black powder lube. Powder coating isn't going to work.

[Brimstone]

make a scoop measure out of an old brass case, just cut / file it down to the right level (about 36 grains I would guess - thats what I load in my 44/40)

it always intrigues me how you 'mericans dislike cleaning your guns so much - black powder is an easy clean

Joe the reason is most aren't using real black powder, they're using substitute and it's harder to clean out and it's immediately aggressive to brass, like promptly destructive.

To make matters worse, professional liars who twist context have gone on record to bloat the claim of how aggressive real black powder fouling is.

Of course the context is comparing substitute powder fouling aggressiveness to old black powder cartridge primers and percussion caps made of extremely aggressive mercury compound. Not real black powder lit off by modern non-corrosive primers.

So yeah, we have this delusion inspired by professional lies that all things black powder are going to rust the gun and crack the brass.

The lie is professionally set. Many will never be convinced otherwise. It is what it is.

[Nobade]

That '58 Remington he is shooting is more difficult to clean than your Uberti SAA. OK, not difficult but more involved. It looks like you have already bought a conversion cylinder, but at any rate the SAA and black powder loaded 45 Colt cartridges are made for each other.

You've gotten all the tips - clean the brass well after shooting (I use a decap die then wet tumble with pins), use some compression, soft bullets, black powder lube, and go to town.

[armoredman]

Why not powder coat? What lube should I use on the bullets? Usually when I load black I just have a wad under the ball. Only lubes I have are either PC or Lee Liquid Alox.

[Nobade]

Good BP lube helps keep the fouling soft so it gets blown out of the muzzle and not accumulate in the bore as a hard crust. When you get the hard buildup, it resizes the bullets and both kills accuracy and leads the bore. Powder coat won't help you there. Soft, BP compatible lube and soft lead bullets are your friends here. There are many lubes that will work for that, personally I like Gatofeo #1. 1 part mutton tallow, 1 part Gulf canning wax and 1/2 part beeswax. Cheap and easy to make, it's good for cartridges, revolvers, and patch lube for rifles.

[Brimstone]

I use Gato Feo too. My blend is as per the formula save for the tallow, I use hamburger fat. I strain it first through a sieve then through cotton T-shirt fabric I use for patches. This removes the fine particles of meat.

It still requires back to back settling and cooling. The gelatin settles to the bottom of the container and must be removed. It takes 5 or 6 heating, cooling and scraping cycles to remove all the gelatin from the bottom otherwise the gelatin will cause the tallow to go rancid.

I also boil the tallow one final time prior to storage or mixing to avoid mold. Once prepared, I mix in the usual quantities and get perfectly suitable and shelf stable bullet lube. I've have most stored in plastic containers in the fridge for long term but keep about 2lbs stored in mason jars on the reloading bench and in my Lyman 45 lube sizer for 3 years no with no rot or going rancid.

I'd say that's a pretty good track record. Best lube I've used.

I do dip my Johnston and Dow revolver cartridges in it as well as soak pillow ticking in it for my muzzleloaders.
Pan lubing works too though I'm not a fan of it. I prefer lube sizing.

Oh I forgot about greased felt wads. Those work like magic. They lube, clean and gas check all in one pass. They work very well in .45 Colt keeping the boys lightweight Rossi carbines running accurately while reducing charges and thus the recoil to something not as stout as a fully loaded hunting charge.

[armoredman]

So, that's the question - if i load a standard wad in the case for lube...will the lube cause the powder to go bad over time? Not like I am going to load a ton of these to stash, doubt black powder cartridges will be a huge factor in my end of the world planning. I do have quite a few of the standard lubed patches in for the 44, should fit right down in the case.
I have to say that the process you guys use to make home made bullet lube sounds pretty complicated for a casual BP loader.

[Minerat]

For lube in my BP guns I use a 50/50 beeswax to unsalted Crisco by weight and add olive oil to get the consistency like I want, say 3 - 7 TBS to 1 lb of mix. And half a green crayon for color and 8 drops of fake vanilla just cause. I melt and blend it in an old pyrex measuring cup in the microwave.

When shooting round balls I use an 1/8" felt wad soaked in the lube under the ball.