First Cast Disaster

[vrod1023]

A small point I noticed - you mentioned the lead was running through the mold Do you have any splatter on the mold faces? That will hold them open. Clean that off. When you dump bullets from mold, do it over your table, not over the open melt. This will prevent any splash from getting on the mating surface.

Maybe your not having this problem, just thought I would mention it.
The gold color is typical of pure lead. Generally I find pure lead likes to be run a tad hotter than alloys, more so if casting a bullet with a lot of grease grooves or square cut groves. Put cat litter on top' or saw dust.
A round ball is way easier to cast prefect than a .30 cal, 200 grn Lovern Style with 8 grease grooves.
I don't use a mallet unless I have too. Too easy too warp the sprue cutter after a couple thousands casts. I use heavy MIG welding gloves.
All above stuff is good from the board.
keep[ us posted.

Thanks for your response. Do I just pour the cat litter over the molten lead? What does that do to the lead? I omitted to say that I am trying to cast for 9mm Luger. It is a hollow point bullet that I will powder coat when all is said and done. I think I was overly ambitious to start off with but I will stick with it lol. I am using some welding gloves and overalls, safety boots and eye protection. I will eventually move on from casting and don't want any nasty reminders haha. Appreciate the advice.

[vrod1023]

Two comments I didn't see anyone respond to:
(post 6) "...shows where I had two of the cavities filled and the bullets came out all crumbly and still attached to the left over lead." and
(post 7) "What does it mean when the top film becomes a gold colour? "

If I understand what you mean by bullets crumbling: The alloy is too hot, AND you are cutting the sprue too soon. Odd that this comes with "...still attached to left over lead..." If the Sprue (left over lead) is attached to the bullet when you have opened the mold - then the sprue was never cut when it was supposed to be. Rotating the sprue plate shears the small pillar of hardened lead when the bullet is ready to be dropped. The mold should never be opened w/o cutting the sprue.

Gold color on surface of melt: I remember this is oxidized tin. In any event, again too hot, and if my memory is good today and this is oxidized tin, you need to flux and get it back into the liquid metal. You want your tin in solution.

Does the top of your melt accumulate a significant amount of lumpy looking metal islands? This is also the "too hot" alloying elements coming out of solution by oxidation clue.

Gloves or easy tap w/ a mallet handle/stick. Either works to cut the sprue, but I take my baked potatoes out of the 425°F oven w/ my bare hands. (older, and unfeeling is my often used line to my kids...)

Hey there and thanks for the response on those two issues. Yes they concerned me quite a bit. I do not want to be losing the tin because I think it will affect the hardness? As others have alluded to on the board I am having some real temperature control issues and until I get a thermometer I will just be shooting in the dark. I hope to have that problem addressed relatively soon. I have ordered what looked to be like a wooden mallet but this is South Africa, anything's possible haha. I haven't been able to add any pics because the system won't let me. I tried fluxing with some candle wax and all I got was smoke everywhere and an oily film over the surface of the lead which eventually burnt off. It was normal paraffin wax.

[vrod1023]

Use a thermometer to see how hot your alloy is . Don't get it too hot .

Be sure and Flux the melt .

You can heat the mould by simply casting boolits in it ... I do this and sit the mould on the edge of the pot while it gets the lead melted .
10 or 12 casts will heat the mould ... throw those boolits back in the pot.

Use a wood mallet or old hammer handle to strike the sprue and cut them ... a six cavity mould is going to be a bear to open with your hands and a wood mallet is going to need a whack or two to open .

A gold color film is usually an indication of high lead content and High Heat .. turn the heat down and flux the melt ...

Easier to learn casting with a 2 cavity mould but your's is a 6 cavity so you just got to deal with it .

The best way to learn how to cast boolits is to Cast Boolits !
Remelt the bad ones ... and ... Keep On Keepin On !
Gary

Thanks Gary! As someone said here on the board I need to learn cadence i.e. get into a rhythm. But my core issue is no way to measure temps. So I will work on that. And get fluxing right which I've learnt now that when I fluxed the lead wasn't hot enough. I've also decided to get a 2 cavity until I've gotten good at this. Thanks for the extra motivation!

[vrod1023]

Lots of good advice so far.
If you are gonna pre-heat the mold, which is a great idea, and have a way to measure the mold temperature, it should be around 375º F, which is 190º C
Good Luck.

Thank you!

[vrod1023]

You can answer your own question. Just be honest with yourself and your expectations. If you simply want a cheaper substitute bullet, just buy your bullets. Casting should be enjoyable or done to achieve performance and flexibility that you simply can’t buy.

The later creates a monster that changes your outlook to read, watch, or do ANYTHING to achieve it. If that ain’t you …. buy’em.

Great advice! I will do just that! Life's too short.

[vrod1023]

I agree with what the others have said about the temperature setting on a Lee Pro 4-20; you've got your temperature set too low. I turn the dial all the way up when melting the alloy, but once it's liquid I set the pot to 6.5 to 7 for casting. If the temperature is too low you'll have wrinkled bullets with poor fill out and rounded edges. If the temperature is too high (like ALL the way up) you'll start oxidizing the lead into a nasty tan/brown powder. Preheat the molds as other's have suggested, then do your casting with the pot set around 7. What alloy are you casting?

I do not know anything about the alloy other than I was told that it was already mixed for casting boolits i.e. lead with antimony and tin. I've bought some wheel weights from a local supplier so I think I will melt those once I've been able to cast this batch. I don't know what their alloy is either but I did the side cutter and hammer test and both passed so I'm praying they're lead.

[vrod1023]

One very rough way to estimate temperature is to flux your melt with wax. I you flux and keep stirring and all it does is smoke your temperature is too low. If you flux it and give it a quick stir or two and it ignites the lead is too hot. And, as Goldilocks said, if you flux and stir it some then it eventually lights it is just right.

Thank you sir! I will go with Goldilocks

[vrod1023]

Please use SMALL amounts of candle wax because sometimes if too much wax is used, it will produce more fire than needed or wanted. And when it ignites, it will flash quickly. Bees wax has a higher ignition point, so keep that in mind if you decide to use this method.

do it outside until you see what is going to happen.

Thanks Dusty. I live in a townhouse complex with a really nosey 80+year old neighbor so unfortunately can't do it outside or I will face the Spanish Inquisition hahaha.

[vrod1023]

One thing not mentioned is alloy. IMO, bad alloy can give you fits. Are you using whatever stuff you scrounged or a good alloy?

Unfortunately I know absolutely nothing about the composition of the alloy.

[vrod1023]

I've read that the proper temperature for your lead alloy is to melt the lead in your pot, turn the thermostat down in increments, and watch until it begins to solidify. Measure the lead temperature. Your proper temperature should be 100 degrees Fahrenheit over that temperature. Personally, I just turn my Lee pot up to #7 and my casts are fine. I watch the lead flow from the bottom nipple. If it lows out fast like water, it's too hot.

If lead is flowing through your mold, it is not aligned. If you have a death grip your handles, doing so could warp your mold and the diameter would be uneven. Most likely it's an alignment problem. I use a Q-tip and dab the pins with 2 cycle motor oil. I also use a plastic mallet to align the two parts by tapping on the handle that attaches to the mold.

When I first started casting, I placed the edge of my 6-cavity mold into the molten lead. I'm impatient and starting using a propane torch to run the flame across the mold and on the handle area that attaches to the mold. The heat would transfer to the mold. Placing the mold to maintain temperature was awkward and I wouldn't lose heat from the mold compared to placing it on a piece of wood and definitely on a concrete floor. I discovered that a hot plate would heat the mold if I left it on the hotplate for awhile ( maybe 20 minutes? ). Now I heat my mold with a propane torch and might leave it on a hot plate before casting. Then, I pour 2-3 casts to further heat my 6-cavity up to temperature and I'm ready to go. Remember to twirl pour (I think that's what it's called) to maintain a more consistent bullet weight. You do this by turning your mold slightly on edge and allow the lead stream drop on the edge of your sprue plate and into the hole. Think of a liquid going into your toilet. Swirl it in and it mixes in evenly. Shoot it directly in and you'll get bubbles.

Great advice! I noticed that the mould when placed under the spout needed to be tilted to be straight up. So perhaps the tilt was designed so that I could do the twirl thing you mentioned? At any rate, I will try it!

[john.k]

The beauty of casting bullets is all the fails go back into the pot .

[mehavey]

First . . Please... just get a lead thermometer.
Don't try to do anything by eyeball, by guess-and-by-golly, or by number on the dial.
You'll drive yourself nuts -- no matter what others might say.
(700-800 degrees The lower number for Lyman#2/hard alloys, the higher for nearer
pure lead/soft alloys)

Second, get/use a covered hotplate for prewarming the mould while the lead is melting
(On that one, you can set the dial sorta in the middle)
See: https://s15.postimg.cc/n7t2rmxtn/Hotplate.jpg

Third, no matter even pre-warmed mould, the first half-dozen casts will require a wood or
rawhide hammer to be used to open the sprue plate. (Just make sure to whack things
absolutely flat/in line with the mould's top surface so not to bend anything over time.)

Fourth, even when up to temperature, aluminum loses heat quickly, and so requires you
to cast fairly fast to keep it up to that temp.

All this sounds complex -- but a couple of sessions and its like riding a bicycle.

[Barry54]

Thanks for your response. Do I just pour the cat litter over the molten lead? What does that do to the lead? I omitted to say that I am trying to cast for 9mm Luger. It is a hollow point bullet that I will powder coat when all is said and done. I think I was overly ambitious to start off with but I will stick with it lol. I am using some welding gloves and overalls, safety boots and eye protection. I will eventually move on from casting and don't want any nasty reminders haha. Appreciate the advice.

“It is a hollow point”

Woah, you are starting off at expert level! That would have been good to know.

Yeah. You likely will need help from your neighbor across the mountain. Maybe start off with one of his single or double cavity molds so you can get the hang of it before attempting your hollow point mold.

9mm and larger pistol boolets are good ones to learn with. 7mm and smaller rifle boolets will be something to learn as well.

Then hollow points. That’s a chapter near the back of the book somewhere.

[vrod1023]

“It is a hollow point”

Woah, you are starting off at expert level! That would have been good to know.

Yeah. You likely will need help from a your neighbor across the mountain. Maybe start off with one of his single or double cavity molds so you can get ithe hang of it before attempting your hollow point mold.

Wow I didn't realise that but I'm taking your advice. Literally just bought a 2 cavity Lee mold for R710...about $38.

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[vrod1023]

The beauty of casting bullets is all the fails go back into the pot .

That is true! I just need to chill.

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[WRideout]

Thank you for responding. Its an NLG mold made locally by Bulletcorp. It's for 9mm Luger. Don't know the temps because I have no thermometers coupled to the pot.I have tried several times now to add pictures but I get an error message but I will contact admin and see if they can assist.

I had trouble posting pictures until I started editing them before posting, to reduce the size of the photo, and file.
Wayne

[vrod1023]

First . . Please... just get a lead thermometer.
Don't try to do anything by eyeball, by guess-and-by-golly, or by number on the dial.
You'll drive yourself nuts -- no matter what others might say.
(700-800 degrees The lower number for Lyman#2/hard alloys, the higher for nearer
pure lead/soft alloys)

Second, get/use a covered hotplate for prewarming the mould while the lead is melting
(On that one, you can set the dial sorta in the middle)
See: https://s15.postimg.cc/n7t2rmxtn/Hotplate.jpg

Third, no matter even pre-warmed mould, the first half-dozen casts will require a wood or
rawhide hammer to be used to open the sprue plate. (Just make sure to whack things
absolutely flat/in line with the mould's top surface so not to bend anything over time.)

Fourth, even when up to temperature, aluminum loses heat quickly, and so requires you
to cast fairly fast to keep it up to that temp.

All this sounds complex -- but a couple of sessions and its like riding a bicycle.

Thanks for the response and pic. Tried posting pics earlier but wouldn't let me. Here goes another try. This is what my smoked mold looks like after the 2 failed attempts.

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[mehavey]

Lyman digital thermometer available on Amazon.
Is it any good?

I run three lead pots (three different alloys)
I have a Lyman thermometer in each of them (never taken out )

They are an excellent/relatively low-cost solution to known/consistent temp.

[mnewcomb59]

Hey buddy you got that mold pretty messed up with lead splatter. One time I nearly ruined a mold (I thought at the time) when I fumbled a cold 2 cavity mold and dropped it in the lead pot. It came out looking about like yours.

The first thing is DON'T USE A BRASS BRUSH! It will scratch your aluminum. If you scratch or dent the edges of a bullet cavity your bullets will stick horribly and you will have to beat the mold to make the bullets fall out.

You need to get that mold smoking hot. How do you know if it is smoking? COVER it in synthetic 2 stroke oil, maybe dunk it, then float it on top of the lead until you see smoke on the whole mold including the sprue plate. Once it is smoking hot, get some gloves and a cotton cloth and wipe it really hard. Push down hard as you wipe and the oil steam and warmth will let the lead slide off. Where there is lead in your air vent channels you will need to use a toothpick to scratch and scrape it out.

It looks like you have lead stuck on the bottom of your sprue plate. You need to keep the bottom clean because the build up of lead will scratch the top of your aluminum mold. Once it is clean you can remove it from the mold then lap it on a sharpening stone or a piece of sandpaper on glass. It is probably not perfectly flat and smooth on the bottom and that is why lead is sticking.

I would also advise to not smoke the mold. Smoking only seems to add new problems such as wrinkles or bullets that cast undersized. A clean aluminum mold will get a hard layer of aluminum oxide on the surface of the cavities after a few heating and cooling cycles. Every 5000 bullets or so I will get some oil residue or other buildup that makes a mold not want to fill out and I need to polish the bullet cavities. I cast a bullet with a nut sitting on top of the cavity, then spin that bullet in the cavities with Ajax or Comet cleaner. I am telling you about this because you might need to polish your mold cavities if lead continues to build up on the mold when you cast bullets.

[charlie b]

The above is good advice. I never smoke my molds. Bullets might stick for a while but as the mold is used they start to fall out. I have used powdered graphite applied cold on a stubborn mold (Lee 2 cavity) and it seemed to work good.

I run my pot hot. It has a golden brown layer on top (with some blue streaks just to make it pretty ). The alloy is Lyman #2. If you want to get rid of it the cat litter idea is good. I used sawdust. Both of these will smoke a lot so you would have to use an exhaust fan while casting.