First Cast Disaster

[vrod1023]

Hi guys...been a while since my first post. Been putting off my first cast until today and my fears were realised. No problem getting the lead melted...have a Pro 4 20. Tried heating up the mold on the edge of the pot and poured...no dice...lead just stiffened in mold and sprue would not budge one bit. Tried heating mold on my 2 plate stove and poured...same thing...had to put the mold in the pot so the lead could melt off and then had to clean it with brass brush. I'm ready to sell everything and buy factory bullets. Please help.

[pworley1]

Sorry for your troubles. What mold were you using. I would suggest that you find a single or double cavity mold and try again. Sometimes a six cavity mold takes a few pours to get up to the temperature needed for the sprue to cut easily. Don't give up.

[Iron369]

Hi guys...been a while since my first post. Been putting off my first cast until today and my fears were realised. No problem getting the lead melted...have a Pro 4 20. Tried heating up the mold on the edge of the pot and poured...no dice...lead just stiffened in mold and sprue would not budge one bit. Tried heating mold on my 2 plate stove and poured...same thing...had to put the mold in the pot so the lead could melt off and then had to clean it with brass brush. I'm ready to sell everything and buy factory bullets. Please help.

Ok.
Take a deep breath and calm down.
There’s no reason to be fearful of casting. There’s just a learning curve. Enjoy the process of learning and new skill.

Pictures of your situation would help with diagnosis.
It would also be helpful to know what mold, what temperature your lead is, and what you’re trying to cast. A video of your method would be ideal.

There’s a LOT of helpful people here that will get you cranking out quality projectiles in no time flat. If I can do it, anyone can.

[charlie b]

Most of us have been through this exact thing. Getting everything at the proper temps is not always straight forward.

It does sound like the melt is too cold. It takes a long time to get the lead up to temp, even after it looks nice and 'fluid'. On my cheap Lee pot I can tell when it is up to temp when I hear the heating element cycling on and off.

And do keep using the hot plate. I set it so the mold is a little warmer (for mine that means setting it on 3 or 4). It is easier to let it cool a little than start with it too cold.

New molds can be a bit frustrating. It takes me quite a few casts (50 or more) before a mold really starts to work well. I'll just sit and cast a bit, toss most of the bullets back in the pot and cast some more. This is also when I figure out how hot the mold likes to be. Cast faster until the bullets get really frosty, then slow down a bit.

[Wayne Smith]

Lazer thermometer will not be satisfactory. You need an immersion thermometer to get an accurate reading. "One try the lead went straight through the mold"? The mold has to be tightly closed to work satisfactorily. How many cavities in the mold? The more cavities the harder it is to get everything going well. I have several molds that I start filling two cavities, dump, fill three cavities, dump, fill four cavities, dump, and finally fill six cavities and the mold is up to temp and everything works - and this is using a hotplate to pre-heat the mold.

[Sasquatch-1]

Crank the pot all the way up. Let the lead melt completely and then some. If this is a two-cavity mold, set the mold on top of the lead for about thirty seconds. Eventually, your bullets should start coming out frosty. At this point you can start turning back the rheostat. My old lee 10 pound pot is run at about 2/3's to 3/4's of the way up on the rheostat. I guess that is around 7 or 8.

[RickinTN]

When the bullets start getting frosty it means the mold is too hot. Slow down and let the mold cool. No need to cool the melt in this situation.
Get an immersion thermometer. Start with your melt at around 740F and see what happens. There is a learning curve but the efforts are well worth it.
Good Luck,
Rick

[white eagle]

Sounds to me like all you need to do is knock the mold on the sprue plate to break the sprue free
I do that till the mold heats up and then just open with a gloved hand after that
once the mold heats up from casting it will be a lot easier
Keep at it

[Thumbcocker]

I have been casting since 1986. Do not own a thermometer or a hot plate. Here is my process. With the pot full of cood alloy, place 1/2 inch or so of clay based cat litter or oil dry on top to prevent oxidation. Place mold on top of the pot/ cat litter. Turn pot to maximum heat setting. Leave mold on pot for 1 hour. Start casting. Return sprues and reject boolits back to the pot. Keep pot topped off by adding ingots as the level drops. Do not touch the temperature setting unless the boolits get frosty or it takes a long time for the sprue to freeze. With the right casting speed and allowing the sprue to cool correctly and adding ingots you may not have to touch the temperature control.

[hermans]

Hi vrod1023. I am in Bredasdorp just across the mountain from you in the Overberg, if you want to talk send me a PM and I will forward you my cell number.
I am sure I can help you in addition to all the great advice given to you here by all these very accomplished boolit casters! Heat in especially the mold is your friend here, rather have them a little frosted that too cold and full of wrinkles and not properly filled out.

[2TM101]

Tried heating up the mold on the edge of the pot and poured...no dice...lead just stiffened in mold and sprue would not budge one bit.

Taking a wild guess here ....but..... good? I have to use a wooden mallet to get the sprue cutter to work. Its cutting through metal, you can't move it by hand and would burn yourself if you tried, even with leather gloves (ask me how I know).

I started casting only a few months ago so I remember all the newbie problems. If your mold is too cold it won't fill. No problem, throw it back into the pot and keep going until it is warm enough. If they are frosted looking the lead is too hot but for now you can still use those so just SLOWLY turn the heat down until that stops. Don't worry about making huge sprues either, those also just go back into the pot and there is no waste.

Also as has been said, use a one or two cavity mold until you figure it all out, six cavity molds are more difficult to use and I still get partially filled bullets out of them even now. But still, no waste.

And while you aren't there yet, you will find out that some bullet designs are made for tumble lubing, some for pan and some for powder coating. Hopefully you have a tumble lube bullet design as those are the easiest to do later, but even if you didn't get that kind you can still tumble lube anything and it will still work for now. You can refine things later. I'm still at the apprentice level of this myself, I have only cast about a dozen times (Though about a thousand bullets each time after the first couple)

[popper]

Fill one hole at a time (alternating) until the sprue/mold gets completely up to temp. Use a wood mallet/stick to 'break' the sprue until the mold is up to temp, then you can open by gloved hand. Keep the mallet handy. Keep the bottom of the plate and pin lubed - wipe off excess with dry rag.

[imashooter2]

I set my mold on the pot rim when I first plug in the pot. It stays there pre warming until the lead is up to temperature. All my Lee pots need to be somewhere around 7 on the dial to maintain 750 degree melt temperature.

[Barry54]

I will add that even when you are doing everything right, it’s normal to cast some rejects until the mold gets up to temperature and you get your pace going. Even then some mold designs are more difficult to cast. In my experience it’s easier to cast short fat ones than long skinny ones until you get some experience.

You probably stopped just before climax, when it was all about to start running right.

Lee precision is the major manufacturer of aluminum molds here. Please read the instructions for their aluminum molds, if you didn’t get good instructions with your mold.

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/BM1206.pdf

[jdgabbard]

Looks like Hermans is close to you and willing to help give you some one on one advice. Take advantage of his offer, not all of us had the opportunity to learn from someone with experience, and had to figure it out on our own.

But, honestly, it's not really difficult once you get the hang of it. But there are a few things that I would suggest. I'm not familiar with bullet corp molds, but from what I was able to see online they appear to be similar in design to Lee molds, at least for the 6cav molds.

That said, if you're working with a 6 cavity, or even a smaller cavity mold, cutting the sprue can be difficult. And often requires the use of a hardwood mallet to strike the sprue open. Though from the one video I can find of that brand of molds it appears to have a sprue plate handle/lever like the Lees do. So opening with the handle would be the correct way if that is the type of mold you have. With that said, casting also requires a cadence. You want enough speed to keep the mold hot and in the right zone for good fillout, but not so hot that it is smearing lead across the top of the blocks or the sprue plate. You have to determine what casting speed this cadence is, and keep to it for consistent bullets.

I'm unsure if you are using 120v or 240v being in South Africa, but I would get the dial on the Lee Pot will probably affect what setting you need to set it at. In the US we have 120v, and I set mine on about 6.5-7. But whatever you set it at, having a lead thermometer helps. Regardless of whether or not you can get by without one. You'll want the temperature of your melt in the 700F/370C range, sometimes higher. But you shouldn't need to go over 800F/425C. The easiest way to determine all of this is to simply use a proper thermometer. They're not expensive, and will save you some headache. There are more fancy PID solutions with digital readouts, but this is unneeded. I don't use anything like that, and I have all the parts on hand to design one if I chose to. (Electronics is a hobby of mine).

Best advice I could give you, is to watch some videos on Youtube of someone actually casting. There are videos!

Here is a video with a "Lee Style" mold with the sprue handle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxpjBAUXAwE

And here is a video showing casting with a typical sprue plate type mold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce4jT-37Fec

Bottom line is this, keep at it. You'll figure it out. It just takes a little practice to figure out what you're doing. The first time I cast the result were not something I was at all proud of. But after another day or two of trying I had good results. And two decades later I'm still at it.

[vrod1023]

Lazer thermometer will not be satisfactory. You need an immersion thermometer to get an accurate reading. "One try the lead went straight through the mold"? The mold has to be tightly closed to work satisfactorily. How many cavities in the mold? The more cavities the harder it is to get everything going well. I have several molds that I start filling two cavities, dump, fill three cavities, dump, fill four cavities, dump, and finally fill six cavities and the mold is up to temp and everything works - and this is using a hotplate to pre-heat the mold.

Thanks Wayne! It's a 6 cavity. Will definitely try what you suggested.

[ascast]

A small point I noticed - you mentioned the lead was running through the mold Do you have any splatter on the mold faces? That will hold them open. Clean that off. When you dump bullets from mold, do it over your table, not over the open melt. This will prevent any splash from getting on the mating surface.

Maybe your not having this problem, just thought I would mention it.
The gold color is typical of pure lead. Generally I find pure lead likes to be run a tad hotter than alloys, more so if casting a bullet with a lot of grease grooves or square cut groves. Put cat litter on top' or saw dust.
A round ball is way easier to cast prefect than a .30 cal, 200 grn Lovern Style with 8 grease grooves.
I don't use a mallet unless I have too. Too easy too warp the sprue cutter after a couple thousands casts. I use heavy MIG welding gloves.
All above stuff is good from the board.
keep[ us posted.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Two comments I didn't see anyone respond to:
(post 6) "...shows where I had two of the cavities filled and the bullets came out all crumbly and still attached to the left over lead." and
(post 7) "What does it mean when the top film becomes a gold colour? "

If I understand what you mean by bullets crumbling: The alloy is too hot, AND you are cutting the sprue too soon. Odd that this comes with "...still attached to left over lead..." If the Sprue (left over lead) is attached to the bullet when you have opened the mold - then the sprue was never cut when it was supposed to be. Rotating the sprue plate shears the small pillar of hardened lead when the bullet is ready to be dropped. The mold should never be opened w/o cutting the sprue.

Gold color on surface of melt: I remember this is oxidized tin. In any event, again too hot, and if my memory is good today and this is oxidized tin, you need to flux and get it back into the liquid metal. You want your tin in solution.

Does the top of your melt accumulate a significant amount of lumpy looking metal islands? This is also the "too hot" alloying elements coming out of solution by oxidation clue.

Gloves or easy tap w/ a mallet handle/stick. Either works to cut the sprue, but I take my baked potatoes out of the 425°F oven w/ my bare hands. (older, and unfeeling is my often used line to my kids...)

[gwpercle]

Use a thermometer to see how hot your alloy is . Don't get it too hot .

Be sure and Flux the melt .

You can heat the mould by simply casting boolits in it ... I do this and sit the mould on the edge of the pot while it gets the lead melted .
10 or 12 casts will heat the mould ... throw those boolits back in the pot.

Use a wood mallet or old hammer handle to strike the sprue and cut them ... a six cavity mould is going to be a bear to open with your hands and a wood mallet is going to need a whack or two to open .

A gold color film is usually an indication of high lead content and High Heat .. turn the heat down and flux the melt ...

Easier to learn casting with a 2 cavity mould but your's is a 6 cavity so you just got to deal with it .

The best way to learn how to cast boolits is to Cast Boolits !
Remelt the bad ones ... and ... Keep On Keepin On !
Gary

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Lots of good advice so far.
If you are gonna pre-heat the mold, which is a great idea, and have a way to measure the mold temperature, it should be around 375º F, which is 190º C
Good Luck.