PB powder weight

[lead chucker]

If you have a 100 gr 3f factory powder say swiss goex by volume how much does the weigh? Trying to figure out the density of my powder. I just checked my powder 3f and 80 gr by volume is around 65 gr by weight. How far off am i?

[lead chucker]

I thought i was making pretty good powder but am starting to figure out i could do allot better. I dont have any Goex or swiss. I have some old pyrodex and some really old dupont. So what weight should a guy work for to get the same density as goex or swiss?

[LAGS]

From what I have found is,
Powders like Swiss or Goex weigh almost exactly what the numbers say on the powder measures.
I set my measure on 100 grain setting.
Then I fill it with my home made powder , and weigh it to see what weight it really is.
My recently made TP powder only weighed 65 grains for 100 grain volume.
My Cedar powder made the exact same way comes out around 85 grains of weight for a 100 grain volume.
But the cedar powder that was only screened and not corned comes out around 68 gr per 100 gr volume.
So just using your powder measure is a good way to get a close rough comparison .
I am also thinking that the TP powder weighs so much less because as you can see in my charcoal weight comparison. The TP charcoal is about half the weight of the cedar charcoal.

[Barry54]

So do y’all still load 100 grains volume for homemade powder? Or equal volume of home brew as off the shelf?

Have you shot over a chronograph and determined how much it takes for equivalent velocity?

[dtknowles]

I posted this range report in the Homemade BP sticky thread.

I shot round balls and semi-wadcutters.

Weights are volumes not measured weights. Factory powder weight matches volume homemade powder is less dense, so charges are lighter than volume indicates.

Old Goex 3f with round ball 35 gr 900 fps, 40 gr 1030 fps, 45 gr 1195 fps
New Goex 3f with round ball 40 gr. 1090 fps
New Goex 3f with 230 gr semi-wadcutter 35 gr. 895 fps
Old Goex 2f with round ball 40 gr 960 fps
My Balsa BP with round ball 40 gr 615 fps, 50 gr 950 fps
My Cedar BP with round ball 40 gr 690 fps, 50 gr 917 fps

My black power is pucked but in a vice so I don't get really high density and it will compress way more than the Goex. 45 gr is all the Goex that will fit under a round ball in my ROA. 50 gr is the chambers filled flush to the top, not really precise. I could maybe squeeze more my powder into the chambers since it compresses a lot but I did not bother to try.

Tim

[lead chucker]

I posted this range report in the Homemade BP sticky thread.

I shot round balls and semi-wadcutters.

Weights are volumes not measured weights. Factory powder weight matches volume homemade powder is less dense, so charges are lighter than volume indicates.

Old Goex 3f with round ball 35 gr 900 fps, 40 gr 1030 fps, 45 gr 1195 fps
New Goex 3f with round ball 40 gr. 1090 fps
New Goex 3f with 230 gr semi-wadcutter 35 gr. 895 fps
Old Goex 2f with round ball 40 gr 960 fps
My Balsa BP with round ball 40 gr 615 fps, 50 gr 950 fps
My Cedar BP with round ball 40 gr 690 fps, 50 gr 917 fps

My black power is pucked but in a vice so I don't get really high density and it will compress way more than the Goex. 45 gr is all the Goex that will fit under a round ball in my ROA. 50 gr is the chambers filled flush to the top, not really precise. I could maybe squeeze more my powder into the chambers since it compresses a lot but I did not bother to try.

Tim

Thank you for that. Gives me a liitle bases of comparison. Im going to chrono my stuff when i can and report my results. I was loading 80 gr home made in my 54 Hawkins which only weighs around 65 gr and was getting around 1300 to 1350. Thats with a round ball. There was a guy shooting next to me and had a chrono and let me run a few rounds through it. More testing for me to do thats for sure. Trying to find the time is the hard part. Wish i was retired already.

[Trapper-Jack]

I tested some of my powder over a chronograph this winter. I'm using a .50 caliber rifle with a 32" barrel with a patched round ball. I tested weight for weight against Goex. 65 grains of Goex averaged five shots at 1390 fps. My willow charcoal powder averaged 1430 fps. Quakie averaged 1447, Spruce went for 1464 and the fastest was the Juniper went 1493. My powder is weighing about 92-93% of the same volume of Goex. I'm shooting mostly willow as I have an abundance of it in my back yard for charcoal. 69 grains of measured willow powder will equal the same weight as measured 65 grains of Goex.

[LAGS]

@ Lead Chucker
Your 65 grain weight compared to 80 grains of volume is around 81% density.
That isn’t too bad.
And like I said, if that powder is made with the TP charcoal , it might be less weight per volume

[Sandro_ventania]

I have the impression that the vast majority of BP shooters use brass cases or revolvers. The minority are muzzleloader shooters. Am I right or wrong? I say this out of concern for the density being closest to BP Goex. The interesting fact is to know that from the experience of some, BP with 80% of the density of Goex works better than Goex itself. including being cleaner.

[LAGS]

I have found that most of my 85% density powders shoot as well as the Goex.
BUT , that is when you measure by Weight and not volume .
But I no longer shoot BP Cartridge or C&B revolvers any more .
So going by weight is not a problem in Front Stuffers .

[2TM101]

I have the impression that the vast majority of BP shooters use brass cases or revolvers. The minority are muzzleloader shooters. Am I right or wrong? I say this out of concern for the density being closest to BP Goex. The interesting fact is to know that from the experience of some, BP with 80% of the density of Goex works better than Goex itself. including being cleaner.

The people concerned with powder density are, because they need to be. My black powder, which is pucked and corned with about a third of it pucked an corned twice as it was fines after the first time, is what I use in cartridge and most revolvers.

My alternate powders, or if I ever made screened black powder again, is used in muzzle loaders and my Walker, as it is the only revolver that holds enough. the powder needing more volume is not an issue.

[lead chucker]

I made it out to shoot my renegade after work 58 cal 1/60 twist. I was shooting 100 gr by volume 3f home made with cedar. I checked the weight tonight on my powder scale and it was 81 gr by weight. I shot just under an inch at around fifty yards two almost in the same hole an one almost touching. That was the best group. i tried various loads with 2f and 3f. Thats with .562 ball and .020 ticking. I didn't have a lot of time and was in a rush but what fun. That renegade has some kick to it.

[lead chucker]

Here is my new to me Renegade made from a 50 to a 58 by Hoyte. I like it.

[lead chucker]

Not sure how i got two pics of the same one in there but as far as im concerned its worth looking at twice. I was cutting patches a little when i shot it but the rifling is probably sharp from the cutting process. Had the same thing with my 54 Hoyte did for me but no big deal. I polished the bore with some polishing compound and then shot the crap out of it and all is good. Im going to do the same with this one. I only had time for about 25 shots tonight. I plan on at least 50 to 70 this weekend. I also just got new to me a .56 SB barrel that im really looking forward to shooting also. Life is good.

[lead chucker]

I pucked up some gun meal with toilet paper charcoal Sunday and when i did i made the pucks half as thick as i normally would hoping to get my density up we will see haw that works. My thought was thinner might compress more. I also used less water when i mixed it before pucking it. Just enough so it didn't make dust when mixing. I'm milling another small batch right now with TP charcoal and KNO3 that i attempted to recrystallized to make it more pure. I did the 77/13/10 recipe with that one. Hoping to have it done by the weekend and chronograph each mix and see what i get.

[Trapper-Jack]

I chronoed some different blends of 70 grains by volume out of my 50 caliber GPR. One was my standard 75/15/10 blend, one had additional sulfur 75/15/11 as the sulfur I'm using is 90% pure and the other was 77/13/10. I shot each blend for a five shot average. The two 75/15 blends were within one foot per second for the average, 1381 and 1380.6. The 77/13/10 blend shot about 50 fps faster at 1433.2 for the average. This was with willow charcoal. The standard deviation on the 77/15/11 blend was a little better than the other two so that's what I stayed with.

[indian joe]

I have the impression that the vast majority of BP shooters use brass cases or revolvers. The minority are muzzleloader shooters. Am I right or wrong? I say this out of concern for the density being closest to BP Goex. The interesting fact is to know that from the experience of some, BP with 80% of the density of Goex works better than Goex itself. including being cleaner.

Sandro
my only commercial comparison powder is mid 1990's vintage Goex 5FA ungraphited
my homemade corned hybrid willow powder is about 90% by weight
homemade screened hybrid willow powder is 76% by weight

chrono tests in a 44/40, 216 grain projectile, 24 inch barrel, 40 grain FFFG homemade (weighed) got average 1355 FPS

same day, same chrono setup, 225 grain projectile over 36 grains Goex 5FA got 1165 Fps

same again 225 grain projectile over 36 grains Wano PPP got 1050 FPS (sold that can of Wano that day)

I dont use corned powder at all in anything that loads from the front including cap pistols
have converted over by cutting larger measures that throw equivalent weight as the goex
i just find screened so much easier, faster process, and we have much better control over grain size - 2% Dextrin in the screened and we have stuff here made in 2015, not clumped in the can and still got decent grain structure - yeah not as hard as corned but its ok stuff.

pistols we just fill the cylinder flush to the top and compress the powder charge with the loading lever then load the ball and grease - simple!

We are obviously not getting commercial density BUT the stuff takes more compression (column height reduces more for the same amount of pressure applied - I have tested this with a scale on the handle of my single stage (NON compound leverage) press that I use for the compression dies in cartridge loading

Also have squeezed a full 40 grains of screened powder into a batch of ten 44/40 cases and got almost identical chrono result as using corned from the same batch. (nothing in it to separate the two) that process was a bit tedious compressing three times to get the load in ..........................

[Sandro_ventania]

Sandro
my only commercial comparison powder is mid 1990's vintage Goex 5FA ungraphited
my homemade corned hybrid willow powder is about 90% by weight
homemade screened hybrid willow powder is 76% by weight

chrono tests in a 44/40, 216 grain projectile, 24 inch barrel, 40 grain FFFG homemade (weighed) got average 1355 FPS

same day, same chrono setup, 225 grain projectile over 36 grains Goex 5FA got 1165 Fps

same again 225 grain projectile over 36 grains Wano PPP got 1050 FPS (sold that can of Wano that day)

I dont use corned powder at all in anything that loads from the front including cap pistols
have converted over by cutting larger measures that throw equivalent weight as the goex
i just find screened so much easier, faster process, and we have much better control over grain size - 2% Dextrin in the screened and we have stuff here made in 2015, not clumped in the can and still got decent grain structure - yeah not as hard as corned but its ok stuff.

pistols we just fill the cylinder flush to the top and compress the powder charge with the loading lever then load the ball and grease - simple!

We are obviously not getting commercial density BUT the stuff takes more compression (column height reduces more for the same amount of pressure applied - I have tested this with a scale on the handle of my single stage (NON compound leverage) press that I use for the compression dies in cartridge loading

Also have squeezed a full 40 grains of screened powder into a batch of ten 44/40 cases and got almost identical chrono result as using corned from the same batch. (nothing in it to separate the two) that process was a bit tedious compressing three times to get the load in ..........................

Your experience is good. I don't really like the sieving system... (personal taste)...in the next batch, I'm going to try to compress as little as possible to make the discs, with the lowest density possible, but so that the grains are still hard. let's see the results.

[indian joe]

Your experience is good. I don't really like the sieving system... (personal taste)...in the next batch, I'm going to try to compress as little as possible to make the discs, with the lowest density possible, but so that the grains are still hard. let's see the results.

If you saw me making screened powder you might get to like that system

I form dough balls about fist size (much wetter than for pucks it needs to be sticky) then grate that through a four foot by two foot window screen set at a sligh incline he whole thing is set up on an old hospital bed that i wheel around so i can set it up in the yard for good airflow and sunlight - has solid MDF board deck with a ledge around and covered with an old white bedsheet to collect what goes through the screen nce I start this pretty constant as the powder starts to dry and firm up it goes back through the window screen to form the grains

This method gives me predominantly FFFg - minimal fines, and some FFg - little bit of cannon grade (stuff that got hard before the second screening) I reckon its three or four to one (time and energy wise) compared to making pucks.