Making Charcoal

[dtknowles]

It is not my equation it is one from an internet search on what happens when you dissolve Potassium Carbonate in water.

I leached my wood ash and boiled the leachate to concentrate then set it aside to cool. I filtered the leachate to remove particulate that formed when it cooled, I repeated that process and then set the remainder of the liquid aside to evaporate to dryness. I now have a powder that I believe is Potassium Carbonate or a mixture that could be considered potash.

I think you are suggesting that I could leach wood ash, and add Lime (CaO), filter the particulate and then evaporate to dryness and I would have a powder that is KOH.

I might try that sometime. I think I can use mortar for Lime.

Tim

[Delkal]

It is not my equation it is one from an internet search on what happens when you dissolve Potassium Carbonate in water.

I leached my wood ash and boiled the leachate to concentrate then set it aside to cool. I filtered the leachate to remove particulate that formed when it cooled, I repeated that process and then set the remainder of the liquid aside to evaporate to dryness. I now have a powder that I believe is Potassium Carbonate or a mixture that could be considered potash.

I think you are suggesting that I could leach wood ash, and add Lime (CaO), filter the particulate and then evaporate to dryness and I would have a powder that is KOH.

I might try that sometime. I think I can use mortar for Lime.

Tim

When you boil down the wood ash you do have K2CO3. It is probably a little impure but it is Potash. Potash is a strong base and you want to avoid getting it on you but it is not that bad and you should have time to wash it off before there is any damage. It is very similar pH wise to washing soda (Na2CO3) that they sell in big boxes to add to your laundry (and most people don't use goggles and gloves when adding it to a load of laundry).

KOH/NaOH/Lye is extremely corrosive and when in a concentrated solution will burn your skin on contact even if you try to immediately wash it off. I don't know the specifics for making soap but if you do the CaO trick from the wood ash solution you might be OK since it is not that concentrated (still wear goggles and heavy nitrile gloves) but trying to boil it down is a recipe for disaster. Don't do it!

While they do sell lye as pellets it is never a powder and will start getting moist and sticking together when sitting in the open from sucking water from the air. The strongest KOH / NaOH solutions used in a normal lab is 50% water, the consistency is thick and almost like honey and no one would attempt to boil it down to concentrate it. You would end up with a super hot goo that would do major damage (like going to the hospital) if even the smallest amount touches you.

[dtknowles]

I understand the warnings about contact with strong alkaline. Thanks.
Isn't the electrolyte in alkaline battery potassium hydroxide?
I will have to check with the shop at work, we use sodium hydroxide to clean our friction stir weld pin tools, it dissolves the aluminum but does not attack the steel. I wonder what concentartion they use. They put it in a heated ultrasonic bath and add the pin tools but I don't know the concentration or the time.

How do you turn a potassium hydroxide solution into a solid. I would rather store my chemicals as solids.

Not pellets or powder but flakes

https://www.bulkapothecary.com/potas...SABEgJpUfD_BwE

Tim

[Delkal]

I don't know if it is used in batteries or the concentration.

NaOH and KOH can be "dried" to a solid but even then they contain 5-10% water and it is difficult to fully dry even under laboratory conditions. I have never worked with the flakes but I assume the KOH was dried in some kind of industrial kiln at high temperature either under vacuum or under a nitrogen atmosphere and when cooled was put thru some kind of chipper under Nitrogen. I don't think you will be able to get more than a thick goo trying to boil it down in a pot open to air. KOH is very hydroscopic and will even start getting moist when you are trying to weigh the pellets on a humid day leaving a wet oily mark on the weigh paper. So don't be surprised if the bottle gets opened a lot the free flowing flakes eventually start sticking together.

The bigger question is why? What do you need anhydrous solid KOH for and why bother trying to make it? I believe it is available online and is relatively cheap to buy pounds of it.

One more caution. If you pour water on solid KOH /NaOH it will rapidly heat up, boil, and more or less "explode" showering everything with boiling caustic lye. To make a concentrated solution you want to add the lye in small portions to the water and cool the container in ice water before you add more. Same warnings with diluting a commercial 50% solution.

It would be a good idea to ask one of your experienced shop guys how they handle it and make their solutions.

[dtknowles]

I don't know if it is used in batteries or the concentration.

NaOH and KOH can be "dried" to a solid but even then they contain 5-10% water and it is difficult to fully dry even under laboratory conditions. I have never worked with the flakes but I assume the KOH was dried in some kind of industrial kiln at high temperature either under vacuum or under a nitrogen atmosphere and when cooled was put thru some kind of chipper under Nitrogen. I don't think you will be able to get more than a thick goo trying to boil it down in a pot open to air. KOH is very hydroscopic and will even start getting moist when you are trying to weigh the pellets on a humid day leaving a wet oily mark on the weigh paper. So don't be surprised if the bottle gets opened a lot the free flowing flakes eventually start sticking together.

The bigger question is why? What do you need anhydrous solid KOH for and why bother trying to make it? I believe it is available online and is relatively cheap to buy pounds of it.

One more caution. If you pour water on solid KOH /NaOH it will rapidly heat up, boil, and more or less "explode" showering everything with boiling caustic lye. To make a concentrated solution you want to add the lye in small portions to the water and cool the container in ice water before you add more. Same warnings with diluting a commercial 50% solution.

It would be a good idea to ask one of your experienced shop guys how they handle it and make their solutions.

The shop "guy" is a young lady and I will be asking. She runs our chemistry shop, does etching, cleaning, passivation, sample analysis, air sampling, chem film application, macro sample prep and such.

I make chemicals for the same reason I make black powder, lead alloys, beer, wine and etc. To be sure I can always have what I want even if I have to make it myself. I want to learn what I can while I have to time, instead of learning when it becomes critical.

Tim

[LAGS]

Today I decided to compare the weight of different charcoals that I made.
I measured equal 3/4 measuring cups of each charcoal powder.
Here are my results .
Soft maple charcoal - 2.6 oz.
Red Cedar chip charcoal - 2.1 oz.
Willow - -1.9 oz
Bolsa - 1.6 oz
Cottonelle toilet paper charcoal - .9 oz

These results explain why my powders are less weight per volume then the Goex powder.

[JimB..]

I find this thread both interesting and informative.
Thanks all

[indian joe]

I have to admit I was always confused about how using hard to get specialty woods like willow would make better black powder vs just buying a bag of Fogo lump charcoal. But TP?

Is it just that starting from purer cellulose is better? So how about making it from old cotton T Shirts?

Willow is easy at my place we planted some "austree" = hybrid willow, twenty odd years ago on a duck island in the middle of our house dam (pond / water storage) several batches later and still using up dry deadfall limbs. those few trees will see me out and my offspring too ....................

[lead chucker]

Made some charcoal out of Kirkland brand TP and made a batch of BP and let it mill for 24 hours or a bit more. Today i pressed it into pucks. It had a strange smell to it. Different than the cedar i have been using which doesn't really have any smell. Any one notice a change in smell when using TP for charcoal? Looking forward to trying it once i get done processing it.

[lead chucker]

Supposed to get some nice weather this week so i had a bunch of cedar BP pucks to break up and get ready to grind. I took the fines after breaking them up and tested them And they burn really fast which is pretty normal for the cedar but im not getting the velocity or any where near what some guys are getting when i shoot. There must be a difference in open air burning and enclosed space burn (AKA) loaded in your rifle. Any one have any insight on this?

[LAGS]

I notice that the TP charcoal smells more like burnt cotton and paper.
So far , I think it will work good in my BP.
But the TP charcoal is not something I would press into charcoal briquettes to use in my barbecue.

[lead chucker]

I wounder if paper towels would work good for charcoal. Probably processed at the factory similar to TP.

[Graysmoke]

Lead chucker, I made my second batch of kirkland tp, no off smell. I shot off the first batch and it did well and soon I will try the second. I also dropped back the load by 10 grains that I used with cedar charcoal so it might be a bit more energetic. Don’t have a chrono so can’t say on veloscity.
Graysmoke

[lead chucker]

I have an old chronograph im going to dig out and hope it still works. Been 20 plus years since i have used it. I need to get a new battery for it and hope for the best. Im going to try to keep better records of what i'm testing and trying out.

[LAGS]

The next batch of TP BP that I am doing today is a little different.
Since the TP charcoal is so light , and the volume so big , I am mixing a batch with 78/ 12 / 10 ingredients.
I hope it goes well and will try and let you guys know how it comes out.

[lead chucker]

The guy in the video's I've been watching he does a 77/13/10 mix and its been working for him. Seems the 75/15/10 is the tried and true recipe and is what been used forever would be the best combination. Im going to try the 77/13/10 and try it. LAGS let us know how that works. It might be the next best secret recipe with TP charcoal. Back in the old days they didn't have the fancy TP of to day, im sure they took care of there business another way. Grass and leaves come to mind.

[lead chucker]

Shot my renegade 58 with The Kirkland TP and compared it to my cedar BP Two different combos and 80 gr by weight with cedar charcoal averaged 1150 fps the TP charcoal was high 1200 to 1300 fps. Notable difference. Went to 100 gr by weight 3f and was averaging around 1400 fps. Now i did a test batch with 77/13/10 recipe for BP with TP and was averaging 1550 with one that went 1604 fps so with the TP and the velocity am in line where is should be? Wanted to test my 54 Hawkin but like a dumb sob i for got the balls. Brought every thing else. Shot my new 56 SB barrel with Round ball and shot to see how it worked and the .550 balls averaged 1550 fps with the 77/13/10 TP powder. No accuracy test to day mostly chronograph work so see where im at with this powder.

[lead chucker]

The .56 SB barrel was a lot of fun. Shot balls and some shot out of it seems like a really versital barrel I will be doing a lot of testing with this one. So much fun.

[indian joe]

Also in the video his uses 77-13-10 instead of 75-15-10 recipe. Any one else tried this?

from the mad monk Swiss file
Blasting powder 75-15-10 (base recipe going back to year dot)
Artillery powder 74-13-13 (more sulphur for easier ignition ?)
fireworks powder 77.5-13.5-9
Sporting powder 78-12-10 (Swiss)