32 caliber for a Forehand Arms revolver.

[Tall]

Sounds like the revolver you have is chambered in the 32 Colt cartridge that uses heel type bullets. You will need a special crimp tool for those:
https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop...colt-crimp-die

Bullets are pretty cheap - maybe these would work for you?
https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop...n-heel-bullets

As someone else said, just fill the cartridge 3/4 of the way so the bullet will compress the black powder a little.

[HumptyDumpty]

Sounds like the revolver you have is chambered in the 32 Colt cartridge that uses heel type bullets. You will need a special crimp tool for those:
https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop...colt-crimp-die

Bullets are pretty cheap - maybe these would work for you?
https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop...n-heel-bullets

As someone else said, just fill the cartridge 3/4 of the way so the bullet will compress the black powder a little.

From his measurements, if I am reading these drawings correctly, it should be 32 S&W. Or course, it's easy to check, sin 32 S&W shouldn't fit into a 32 Colt chamber.

[dtknowles]

Sounds like the revolver you have is chambered in the 32 Colt cartridge that uses heel type bullets. You will need a special crimp tool for those:
https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop...colt-crimp-die

Bullets are pretty cheap - maybe these would work for you?
https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop...n-heel-bullets

As someone else said, just fill the cartridge 3/4 of the way so the bullet will compress the black powder a little.

The 32 colt is a smaller diameter and when fired in that chamber the case will split.

He already measured the chamber and if his measurements are right, it is a .32 S&W with an oversize throat that will accept an .32 S&W Long case but would only work with .32 long brass if the bullet is seated flush or less with the mouth of the case.

Tim

[dtknowles]

You know it's funny, I never thought to try weighing the charge; I just used the volumetric measure, and assumed that it was different. Good to know. Of course you are also correct about balloon-head brass, but I actually have some which I do use. Many people say not to, but it doesn't seem to be a problem with these tiny, low-pressure rounds.

I measure almost all my pistol charges by volume both smokeless and BP, but I do check the weight of the charge from time to time to make sure the powder measure is set properly and when using a dipper, I check the weight to make sure I am using the right dipper when using smokeless powder. Measuring BP using volume dropper I can tell it is right just by eyeball since it should be filling the case or chamber if it a Cap and Ball revolver. On muzzle loaders, the amount is less important as long as each charge is the same.

Tim

[dtknowles]

You know it's funny, I never thought to try weighing the charge; I just used the volumetric measure, and assumed that it was different. Good to know. Of course you are also correct about balloon-head brass, but I actually have some which I do use. Many people say not to, but it doesn't seem to be a problem with these tiny, low-pressure rounds.

If I had ballon head brass, I would use them with BP. They might be fine with smokeless but for smokeless you don't need the extra room. I think for a while someone was making new balloon head brass in Cowboy calibers but with the current brass shortage, they are probably out of stock.

Tim

[dondiego]

Maybe when I come down there for the Harley Drags. I will let ya shoot one of Mine!!! Yer missin alot of fun shootin smallish projectiles at pedestrian speeds.. 4-500 fps!!

Oh! Don't get me wrong. I have many 32's and love to shoot and reload for them but I have seen many that are not in good enough shape to shoot regularly. If this OP doesn't have much experience with these small pistols I am just recommending that he buy a box of 32 S&W ammo and see how it performs. If his firearm has been modified it might be able to chamber a round that is not suitable to fire in it. I have several .32 caliber revolvers and do shoot and reload for mine but they do have their limits.

Hey racepres, if you come down to the Milan Dragway, look me up and we can shoot in my back yard! I welcome you.

[racepres]

Oh! Don't get me wrong. I have many 32's and love to shoot and reload for them but I have seen many that are not in good enough shape to shoot regularly. If this OP doesn't have much experience with these small pistols I am just recommending that he buy a box of 32 S&W ammo and see how it performs. If his firearm has been modified it might be able to chamber a round that is not suitable to fire in it. I have several .32 caliber revolvers and do shoot and reload for mine but they do have their limits.

Hey racepres, if you come down to the Milan Dragway, look me up and we can shoot in my back yard! I welcome you.

I enjoy shooting all manner of arms.. and am Not against starting lowNow...and giving Up if it is obviously a Lost Cause!!
I will be at Milan Dragway, and will let ya know our itinerary...If Ya Like...

[Wayne Smith]

I don't know this for a fact but believe that most all of those old 32S&W revolvers were drilled through - I know my H&R is. And, since the 32S&W and the 32 Long were operating at much the same pressures with BP loads it really wasn't a problem?

[dondiego]

I don't know this for a fact but believe that most all of those old 32S&W revolvers were drilled through - I know my H&R is. And, since the 32S&W and the 32 Long were operating at much the same pressures with BP loads it really wasn't a problem?

That makes sense......I just hope hope that a drilled through cylinder is not long enough to handle a .32 H&R Mag round.

[HumptyDumpty]

That makes sense......I just hope hope that a drilled through cylinder is not long enough to handle a .32 H&R Mag round.

It usually isn't, I've tried.

[Chappy]

Looking at the case dimensions, 32 s&w long has a case length of .920 and a rim thickness of .055 which would make the case just short enough to be contained in its cylinder. The other difference is the head thickness of the 32 s&w short is .045 so you might verify the clearance between rear of cylinder and breech face. The diameter is .334(short) vs .337 (long) yet bullet diameter is same at .312 which might make the long slightly thicker. The pressure rating on the long is 15k vs the short at 12k psi. All that said, if it was my project I would try the wadcutter (flat nose not button style) seated flush to prevent the bullet jump as much as possible.

[dtknowles]

Looking at the case dimensions, 32 s&w long has a case length of .920 and a rim thickness of .055 which would make the case just short enough to be contained in its cylinder. The other difference is the head thickness of the 32 s&w short is .045 so you might verify the clearance between rear of cylinder and breech face. The diameter is .334(short) vs .337 (long) yet bullet diameter is same at .312 which might make the long slightly thicker. The pressure rating on the long is 15k vs the short at 12k psi. All that said, if it was my project I would try the wadcutter (flat nose not button style) seated flush to prevent the bullet jump as much as possible.

This source disagrees with you regarding pressures and head dimensions.

https://www.theballisticassistant.co...ridge-catalog/

32 Smith & Wesson

MAP (CUP) – 12,000

MAP (PSI) – 17,000

Headspace – Rim

Headspace Dim – .055 to .069

Max Case Length – .603

Trim to Length – .585

COAL – .930 to .880

Head Diameter – .378

Small Pistol Primer


32 Smith & Wesson Long

MAP (CUP) – 12,000

MAP (PSI) – 15,000

Headspace – Rim

Headspace Dim – .056 to .070

Max Case Length – .920

Trim to Length – .900

COAL – 1.230 to 1.210

Head Diameter – .375

Small Pistol Primer

Just saying, not finding the same info you found.

Tim

[turtlezx]

found the cost of these new 1900 $7.50 my casting mentor called him MASTER CASTER he liked that.

said you spent $100 on reloading equipment for a $10 gun shook his head and walked away priceless

[racepres]

Looking at the case dimensions, 32 s&w long has a case length of .920 and a rim thickness of .055 which would make the case just short enough to be contained in its cylinder. The other difference is the head thickness of the 32 s&w short is .045 so you might verify the clearance between rear of cylinder and breech face. The diameter is .334(short) vs .337 (long) yet bullet diameter is same at .312 which might make the long slightly thicker. The pressure rating on the long is 15k vs the short at 12k psi. All that said, if it was my project I would try the wadcutter (flat nose not button style) seated flush to prevent the bullet jump as much as possible.

That is Not what the Current SAAMI shows!! Last I checked...Previous to this week, 32S&W MAP was 18,000
of course, we can be sure that some time awhile ago the 32S&W L changed downward also..

[dtknowles]

That is Not what the Current SAAMI shows!! Last I checked...Previous to this week, 32S&W MAP was 18,000
of course, we can be sure that some time awhile ago the 32S&W L changed downward also..

What do we do when SAAMI keeps moving the targets. And what gives with the CUP and PSI not being proportional seems something is out of whack.

Of course, this is the beauty of using Black Powder in these old guns. You can't put an unsafe amount of BP in one of those old cartridges. With this fellas gun all the black powder you can put in a piece of 32 S&W long brass along with a wadcutter or any bullet loaded below flush with the case mouth is not going to cause excessive pressure and might be pretty accurate.

Tim

[racepres]

What do we do when SAAMI keeps moving the targets. And what gives with the CUP and PSI not being proportional seems something is out of whack.

Of course, this is the beauty of using Black Powder in these old guns. You can't put an unsafe amount of BP in one of those old cartridges. With this fellas gun all the black powder you can put in a piece of 32 S&W long brass along with a wadcutter or any bullet loaded below flush with the case mouth is not going to cause excessive pressure and might be pretty accurate.

Tim

Yup...Agree wholeheartedly...and, I continue to load exactly the way I did in the Late '70's... Long as components are available..
The BP suggestion is absolutely the very best in this circumstance...

[Larry Gibson]

The idea that the 32 S&W cartridge (factory) give less pressure than factory 32 S&WL cartridges and are thus much safer to shoot in these old revolvers is a myth. Here are some actual pressure measurements I took of both cartridges using factory and reloads.

32 S&W

I recently inquired at several LGSs regarding any 32 S&W or 32 Short colt cartridges they may have laying around. I ended up with several sample of 32 S&W of various makes of unknown vintage. The purpose for the acquisitions was to pressure test them. I pressure tested them a couple days ago and had interesting results. I also ended up with full box of Western 32 Short Colt which I’ve not tested yet.

The test firearm was a Contender With a 10” barrel chambered in 32 H&R Magnum and a strain gauge affixed over the chamber at the prescribed SAAMI location for pressure measurement. The gauge was connected to the Oehler m43 and its attendant software in a laptop. I was able to measure the pressure and muzzle velocity of the assorted 32 S&W cartridges.

As a reference: 32 H&R Magnum

Federal 32 H&R 85 gr LSWC factory ammunition ran 1217 fps (987 fps out of 6 ½” Ruger SS) at 18,200 psi.
A Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye ran 1128 fps at 16,500 psi

32 S&WL pressures;

Federal factory WCs; 12,000 psi
Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 2.8 gr Bullseye ran 1060 fps at 16,800 psi (880 fps out of my M30 S&W with 3” barrel)
Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye ran 1165 fps at 19,300 psi.
98 gr cast SWC over 2.5 gr Bullseye ran 944 fps at 15,000 psi.
98 gr cast SWC over 4 gr Unique ran 1101 at 19,000 psi

The results of the 32 S&W factory ammunition;

Winchester Western 86 gr Lubaloy LRN; 786 fps at 18,900 psi
Winchester W-W; 727 fps at 15,300 psi
Winchester [WRA]; 729 fps at 16,300 psi
Remington [R-P]; 676 fps at 14,200 psi
Federal [F C] 86 gr FMJRN; 833 fps at 17,900 fps
Winchester [WRA] 86 gr FMJRN; 780 fps at 14,000 psi

The average pressures for the 32 S&W ran from a low of 14,000 psi to 18,900 psi. The 32 S&W is presumed to be a lower pressure cartridge than the 32 S&WL because it is the shorter cartridge. That presumption is probably based off similar cartridges such as the 38 SPL/357 Mag, the 44 SPL/44 Mag, etc. Thus, those presumptions has always led to the belief that using the 32 S&W in the old H&R and Iver Johnson top break 32 S&WL chambered revolvers was “safer” because of the less psi of the 32 S&W cartridge…….we see from the actual psi of numerous 32 S&W factory loads that is not always the case……..

I'm not saying 32 S&W ammunition is unsafe in 32 S&WL chambered top break revolvers or solid frame older revolvers just saying there's not a lot of difference, in pressure, between the two cartridges as is thought.

I might add that the psi of some original WRA 32 S&W loaded an 88 gr lead bullet over 7 gr of what appeared to be 4f BP ran 10,800 psi. They were Balloon head cases.

[rebelrider.mike]

It makes sense to me that a smaller amount of propellant in a small space could yield a similar pressure. Is Bullseye smokeless or black powder? I've read several places that suggest a S&W with black powder would be around 500 fps.

I read an article the other day that said psi and cup aren't directly proportional because of the very short duration of the maximum pressure. I didn't understand it all, but it has something to do with the time it takes to deform a piece of copper.

[dtknowles]

Once again I want to thank Larry for his testing and data sharing.

Thanks Larry.

Tim

[dtknowles]

It makes sense to me that a smaller amount of propellant in a small space could yield a similar pressure. Is Bullseye smokeless or black powder? I've read several places that suggest a S&W with black powder would be around 500 fps.

I read an article the other day that said psi and cup aren't directly proportional because of the very short duration of the maximum pressure. I didn't understand it all, but it has something to do with the time it takes to deform a piece of copper.

I is absolutely easy to put enough fast powder in that small case to create more pressure than is safe so the small case can make more pressure than the long case if that is how the ammo is loaded. The 32 S&W long wadcutter factory ammo is almost always loaded to lower pressures than all the other 32 S&W ammo because that is what the shooters who use it most want, not really the lower pressure but the lower recoil and lower blast because they are shooting at paper targets with precision not how good it might be at killing something.

Regarding the stories about the non-linearity of CUP vs. Psi being caused as you described, it is just a theory. There is very little data on the performance of materials when subjected to impulse loading (short duration high loads). It is clear that such a phenomenon as was suggested is real but it is not documented (or at least I have not been able to find such documentation) that this it actually the case. That you did not really understand it is not a surprise, it is not well understood. There are other theories about that as well but just it is good to know that the pressure might be higher than CUP suggests and using PSI data is probably better.

Tim