The RBH 45 Colt and Universal

[Chill Wills]

RBH and Universal. I think its full name is Universal Clays.
I got my old 4-5/8th Black Hawk back with new, better cylinders and looking at my powder choices, I have the most Universal to make a good load with. I don't really have a feel for this powder and how it will do in the big case. Is it worth my time or should I try a classic powder like Herco, which I have very little of???

I have an old Ideal 452423 Mold, and though a little beat up and rusted in the nose before I got it, overall it makes usable bullets.
Here is its bio:
"452423 Newly designed 45 auto rim bullet by Elmer Keith. Band and lubricating grooves designed to give best results in Model 1917 revolvers, when reloading auto pistol or auto rim cases. Recommended charge is 4.5 grains of Bullseye. (PB, 240 - TP is 424)".

Mine casts 245 grs in my scrap alloy.
I am not looking for Ruger only loads but a good, accurate, stiff Colt load is fine.

[scattershot]

Clays is almost like Unique. Should be great in the old thumbbuster. Lots of loads in various manuals.


Just be careful which clays you have. I’m not sure how the manufacturer could have made it any more confusing, but they did a pretty good job of it.

[jreidthompson1]

https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/

Shows a lrnfp 250gr at max load at 13000cup and 941 fps

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[Dom]

I cast & shoot 250 to 310gr weight bullets in my 4 5/8" Blackhawk. Many different loads . Universal Clays I have never used. I find Unique to be a very versatile powder. The Ruger of course will handle well above traditional loads ( 13,000 psi ) One load using my 265gr, plain base, cast ( BHN 13.4) of scrap WW. Using Unique, over my chrono reads 1175fps. Very accurate in my revolver. I have found the 45 Colt is very easy to load for.

Hodgon shows: a 250gr , max load ( 13,400 psi traditional load ) 5.1grs of Clays at 817 fps.

[jreidthompson1]

Hodgdon clays and hodgdon universal clays are a good bit apart in the burn rate charts. Just make sure the load data matches the powder.

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[Chill Wills]

There is a powder "Clays" that is fast like Bullseye. Universal Clays is not the same. You would not want to confuse the two.
I am asking if you have good advice (experience) about Universal Clays in the 45 Colt, please let me know what you think about the pair.
I am saving my supply of Unique for my 44 Special.

[challenger_i]

Just for some clarification (or, muddying the waters further):

"from the Hodgdon web site.

CLAYS®
CLAYS™
Introduced in January, 1992, CLAYS gunpowder has "taken the clay target world by storm". It is the cleanest burning , most consistent 12 ga. 7/8., 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. powder available today, the preferred choice of competitive target shooters.. The superb burning characteristics of this powder produce soft, smooth recoil and excellent patterns. These features transfer directly to handgun applications where target shooting is the main goal. 45 ACP and 38 Special are only two of the cartridges where CLAYS gunpowder provides "tack driving" target accuracy with flawless functioning. Available in 14 oz., 4 lb. & 8 lb. containers.

INTERNATIONAL®
INTERNATIONAL CLAYS™
INTERNATIONAL gunpowder is the second in the "CLAYS" gunpowder series of powders, bringing this technology to the 20 gauge reloader. It also works in 12 ga., 2 3/4" light, medium and heavy 1 1/8 oz. loads, and high velocity 1 oz. As with CLAYS gunpowder, clean burning and flawless functioning is the rule. Available in 14 oz., 4 lb. & 8 lb. containers.

UNIVERSAL®
UNIVERSAL CLAYS™
UNIVERSAL gunpowder handles the broadest spectrum of cartridges for both pistol and shotgun. This is the Clays gunpowder technology designed for 28 gauge shooters. From the 25 ACP to the 44 magnum and 28 gauge to 12 gauge, UNIVERSAL gunpowder provides outstanding performance. As with all the "CLAYS" gunpowder series powders, clean burning and uniformity are part of its attributes. Available in 1 lb., 4 lb. & 8 lb. containers."

[Chill Wills]

challenger_i, Good one. Thanks!

Universal Clays......

[GrizzLeeBear]

Clays is a fast powder like Bullseye or Red Dot.
Universal is a medium speed powder very similar to Unique.
I would use the data for Universal at the link jreidthompson1 posted.

[Abert Rim]

I have used Universal for years and find it very similar to Unique in usefulness, plus it seems to burn a bit cleaner, not that that has ever particularly mattered to me.

[rintinglen]

My guess is that you will find a good load somewhere between 7.0 and 8.0 grains of Universal and still be in normal 45 Colt pressure territory. In your strong Ruger, I'd have no qualms going up another grain or so and have a sort of "Skeeter" load for a 45 Colt. I use the Skeeter load extensively in my 44 Specials.

[Chill Wills]

My guess is that you will find a good load somewhere between 7.0 and 8.0 grains of Universal and still be in normal 45 Colt pressure territory. In your strong Ruger, I'd have no qualms going up another grain or so and have a sort of "Skeeter" load for a 45 Colt. I use the Skeeter load extensively in my 44 Specials.

Thanks! Based on this, I will make some test loads to put on paper at 25 yards. 7grs to 9 grs., at every half grain, and go with the one that looks best. Just what I was looking for.

[Tall]

Universal is a very different powder than Universal Clays. Make sure you use the data for the powder you use. Both are I believe unavailable.

[Chill Wills]

Yes. Clays is not the subject of this thread of posts. It turns out, if you go back an read from post #1, it can not be repeated enough based on how many times the two are confused.

[tobywan45]

Universal used to be called Universal Clays Technology to remove some of the confusion they shortened that to Universal and theirs still old canisters out there


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[toxophilus]

The closest I could find for Universal from my library were:

• Hornady 7th Edition; Pg 910 / 255gr lead boolit / C.O.L. 1.575 / Starting load Clays UNIV 5.6gr to 7.9gr

• Modern Reloading 2nd Edition; Pg 270 250gr lead boolit / C.O.L. 1.600 / Starting load UNIVERSAL 6.5 to 7.8

Attached is a group I achieved/settled on with my Blackhawk + 200gr XTP + Universal@20 yards on a 3" target (testing for accurate load)... the Speer #14 didn't list a higher weight in lead.

[gnappi]

I like to use printed or otherwise vetted load data because terms can and do get jumbled. There's printed data on Universal in .45 Colt but none I can find in my library for Ruger / FA / TC.

The Speer 12th manual shows loads with your max projected throws at ~950 fps.

All my documented loads of Universal got lost in my last move but I used a lot of it (still have a keg) and I remember that I used the Speer manual for cast bullets and Universal quite a bit.

If you like, PM me and I'll send you a copy of the .45 Colt pages from Speer's 12th.

[35 Rem]

I think this is why it's never a good idea to get load data from an internet forum. Anything you get is always going to be suspect and you still have to go to a reliable source to verify that it's safe. For anybody who is not a current subscriber to Load Data, I'd recommend it because they tend to have loads more in tune to us cast bullet shooters.

[Chill Wills]

It is not a problem, (really!) but I wasn't asking for loading data as much as wondering if "Universal Clays" had a good track record for accuracy in the 45 Colt. See post #1, paragraph 1, last line. Of course, good hearted people want to look up sources and provide data, which really wasn't ever the question. My writing skills may not have been clear enough. The post went on to make it less clear.

This thread really got off in an other direction.

All who posted and tried to help me, a sincere thanks!!!

I am going to do some load testing @25 yards and see, if the Wyoming winter weather every gives us a good day to get out.