Case gauges for checking final cartridges?

[dverna]

Assuming your weapons will shoot factory ammunition reliably, there are three reasons reloaded rounds will not chamber. One is that the base of the case has been "blown out" so it jams and does not go into battery. The second is the bullets are either too large in diameter and/or the nose profile hangs up in the throat of the gun. The third, which I have never experienced, is the case is too long and does not headspace properly.

I do not consider over crimping, as that is so obvious and easy to fix that is does not merit much discussion. Learn to apply a good taper crimp.

IMO a case gauge will (should?) determine if the case is "blown out", or the bullet is too large.
That can be determined with a micrometer as well.

The max diameter of the 9mm case is .391" and tolerance is -.007" If your cases measure more than .391 you need to "bulge bust" them or scrap them.

The maximum diameter of the case at the case mouth is .381" max. and tolerance is -.007". If your cast bullet is oversize, and expands the mouth to over .381", you will need to reduce the diameter of the bullet. If you have an undersized chamber (use Cerosafe to check it) return the barrel or have it reamed to specification. BTW, if you have an oversized chamber in a gun, it could be "blowing out" cases and creating a problem in other guns. Get that barrel replaced.

A case gauge will not tell you if your bullet profile is a problem. Issues with bullet profile can sometimes be addressed with shorter COL, changing to a different bullet that is more forgiving, or having the barrel throated.

I agree with you, having a specific bullet or seating depth to match the issues of each weapon is not an ideal solution. It goes against my KISS philosophy. My reloaded ammunition should be as good or better than factory, therefore it should work in every gun.

I used to have four lever action rifles and four pistols that used the same .38 Spl load. I may have been lucky, but it was convenient not to have to worry about which load I needed for which gun when heading out to practice. Currently I have three 9mm pistols and two 9mm carbines that use the same practice load. Easy-peasy.

9mm brass is too cheap to mess around with. Sorting brass after every range session and having a load that will work with one lot of headstamps but not another is silly IMO. If you have some bad brass, sell it or scrap the offending headstamps.

Your expectations are reasonable. Do not listen to advice to tailor your loads to the gun. If that was required, factory ammunition would be a nightmare and we could not fight wars. You are not creating benchrest ammunition. KISS

[jsizemore]

I had a bit of trouble with a 135 RF HTC bullet in a g19x. Mixed headstamp 9mm was part of the problem. I had a powder funnel made that expanded the brass but was just shy of the start of the web. Got an Accurate 35-115Y mold that is for PC or HT. Even with the bullet seated so the junction of truncated cone and the body are flush with the case, the bullet base doesn't get into the case web. 100% function in a glock 17, 19x, sig 226,p320, awg320 and ruger PC9. Just a hint of the bullet shoulder is clear of the case mouth. Local PD training officer gave me a case of of matched brass from training and quals. Mixed stuff still works but you gotta search to find those empties. The PC sure does take care of a bunch of ills. The truncated cone nose takes care of any throating issues. The short body of the bullet takes care of case bulge and seating issues. Fully dressed it weighs 119 gr. 5 cavity mold produces a decent amount of bullets and Accurate molds are great to use. After coating I shove them through my bullet sizer. Easy, easy, easy.

[oley55]

reloading 9mm cast seems to be WAY harder than it should be. Especially for multi nines of different manufacture. After watching and following many threads over the years I admit I am on the verge of giving up on cast, but not quite yet.

As to the case gauge use, the recommendation to tuck it in the back of a drawer is probably a good suggestion. Pull the barrel/s and do the plunk test. If you are willing to sort your brass and determine which work in all weapons, plunk testing now and then should work. If using assorted mixed brass you will need to plunk test EVERY round.

For my old eyes the suggestion of sorting seemed like crazy talk but then plunk testing every round and finding MANY fails to plunk is worse. The only brass that I have found that always works with my larger than .356” pc’d bullets is Blazer brass(FC brass was close but not as consistent). Everglades Ammo was selling sorted 9mm all Blazer and I bought 4Ks worth. Currently their sorted 9mm is of the FC variety. It is frustrating that 10 of a head-stamp are fine but the 11th isn’t. AMD brass was/is a definite NO-GO no matter what. The walls are just too thick.

The brass may not be your problem but was for my fatter bullets.

[Shadowden]

I called and spoke with the folks at RCBS about the bullet collet for 9mm (358/38) and had a good discussion with the gentleman on the phone. He also suggested that maybe I should increase my COL. His thinking was that the larger 133 gn bullet may be pushing down into the taper of the brass and creating just enough bulge. These bullets are currently seated right at the shoulder on my NOE 133 mould (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...58-133-rn-bo5/) as was suggested by rockshooter. I may try bringing it out a bit. Currently, the COL is 1.104 to 1.112 (I reset all of my dies after replacing the friction plate mentioned earlier). If I recall correctly, the gentleman at RCBS suggested 1.145 (I got the call back when I was out doing some backcountry hunt conditioning). I did have a discussion with AL at NOE and I think that is how I got to such a short COL. It seems like I should have some room to bump the bullet out due to the profile. Certainly worth making a couple of dummy rounds to plunk test/chamber gauge check.

[243winxb]

Loading for more then 1 chamber, has to make loading harder.

But factory ammo works in all.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...9mm-luger.317/

[Shadowden]

I had a bit of trouble with a 135 RF HTC bullet in a g19x. Mixed headstamp 9mm was part of the problem. I had a powder funnel made that expanded the brass but was just shy of the start of the web. Got an Accurate 35-115Y mold that is for PC or HT. Even with the bullet seated so the junction of truncated cone and the body are flush with the case, the bullet base doesn't get into the case web. 100% function in a glock 17, 19x, sig 226,p320, awg320 and ruger PC9. Just a hint of the bullet shoulder is clear of the case mouth. Local PD training officer gave me a case of of matched brass from training and quals. Mixed stuff still works but you gotta search to find those empties. The PC sure does take care of a bunch of ills. The truncated cone nose takes care of any throating issues. The short body of the bullet takes care of case bulge and seating issues. Fully dressed it weighs 119 gr. 5 cavity mold produces a decent amount of bullets and Accurate molds are great to use. After coating I shove them through my bullet sizer. Easy, easy, easy.

Yeah, these are getting PC using the shake and bake method. Don't want to give up on this mold quite yet, but maybe in the future I'll need to try the Accurate Mold you identified. Pretty simple bullet design and may cast more efficiently without the shoulder. What mold material did you go with? The gentleman that got me started down this path swears by steel. My NOE is aluminum.

Once I get this figured out, maybe I'll ask you all about not getting wrinkles on my 225 gn 0.310 boolits for my 300 BO using the NOE TL-310-225PB (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop...3-2-cavity-pb/)

[Littlewolf]

I agree with bulge busting all range pickup brass straight after wet tumble and dry, then headstamp sorting, then uniform trim (I prefer a Forster Original with a short base for calibers shorter than 38spl).
I have SAAMI pages for all my calibers and trim to their minimum lengths within .0005". this seems to cure plunk, and cartridge gauge problems after going through my Dillon press.

My $0.02
Littlewolf

[Shadowden]

I started looking into bulge busting yesterday. Not sure that was the problem since cases pass the gauge prior to seating bullets (after replacing friction plate on press) but not sure if I covered that previously. I played more this morning and COL needs to be short and I needed to add an eighth of a turn in on my crimp die. 3 different headstamps, three successful plunk tests. Still going to pay attention to what is going into the press from a headstamp perspective and how they are coming out though. Was amazed by how sensitive it was to COL.

Also, the RCBS collet was a dream. Worked perfectly for pulling all of my dummy tests and non passing cartridges.

My hesitation in adding bulge busting is my understanding that it oversizes 9x19, at least if a 9mm makarov fcd with internals removed is used. May be a little off on the info as to whether it is an FCD or other die.

[Shadowden]

I thought I had this thing licked and could happily start producing some range fun. Just not to be yet.

I have started to sort a measure brass wall thickness thinking it could be a problem (in my measurements wall thickness varied from 0.009 to 0.012), but have plunk test passes with all of the different thickness cases. I did have some bullets seat extremely out odf square and am beginning to wonder if it relates to slight inconsistencies with how the bullets are seating. Will be following up on the potential for a better cowboy style expander.
I am also interested in trying some different bullet profiles, so may be sending some PMs. Similarly, I would be curious if there are some folks out there that would want to give these bullets a try in a progressive press to see what you find out. Willing to send 25-30 bullets and like amount of brass to a few folks willing to try. It is a popular mold, so I'm sure it is doable.

I also plan to try these in my turret to see if it is sometging in the progressive.

Thank you all for your thoughtful suggestions to date. We will get it figured out.

[GONRA]

GONRA only loads range pickup brass for semiautos, but, for wot it's worth, here goes:

For 9mm Luger, older RCBS dies hava small mouth entrance radius.
These do a nice "back to factory dimensions" fired case resizing job.
NO goofy looking "belt" remains.....
BUT - requires a little care centering cases whilst resizing! !!

Today's RCBS dies have larger mouth radii for trouble-free
operation in progressive presses.
Resized cases may not be as pretty......

[Willie T]

When your reloads won’t chamber something is far enough out of spec. your cartridge won’t fit. Figure out what is out of spec & where and you can address the cause. Take one of your loaded cartridges that won’t plunk. Color it up with a black magic marker. Stick it back in the barrel. The area that is hanging up will have a ring rubbed into the magic marker. Then measure the O.D. where it won’t chamber if it is the case. Then pull the bullet and measure the case length.
Knowing where on the case it is buckled will alllow you to diagnose the root cause of the buckle. Depending on the barrel and bullet profile, it may be something as simple as loading the cartridge too long. Could also be the seating stem engraving some of your projectiles creating a COAL situation that is too long. Could also be starting with too much flare at the case mouth, requiring excessive taper crimp to close the flare so the cases that are a bit long buckle a bit. Could also be cases bulged close to the web from an unsupported case head.
Identify the problem. Measure some stuff and the problem will become apparent. Then address the root cause. Right now you are just throwing stuff at it that others have butted their heads against and hoping to stumble onto the problem.
Good luck working it out. You will learn some stuff in the process.
Willie

[Green Frog]

This thread has dragged on for a while, so I’d like to just provide my summation of what works for me, YMMV. In the end, you have to be you.
First, I hate to disassemble the firearm just to use it for a gauge. Likewise, I’m uncomfortable being in my basement and dropping live rounds into an assembled gun. Therefore, unless I encounter an unusual caliber or out-of-spec chamber, I try to maintain an assortment of cartridge gauges to safely test each round I’ll be using. Again, this works for me every time. You do you.
Froggie

[kevin c]

I shoot gen 3 9mm Glocks with cast sized to 0.357”. The same rounds, loaded on a SDB, worked in all of them, with the single exception of the replacement “Marksman” barrels, that require a slightly shorter OAL (so the new round for all is now the shorter round).

What works for me:

Single head stamp once fired brass (minimal variation in case wall thickness and length) that’s on the thinner side: I’ve measured case mouth thickness between 0.010” to 0.011”, depending on head stamp, and that can mean a couple thousandths greater diameter after bullet seating. That and the chubby bullet might bulge enough to be problematic.

I roll size all my brass. Zero hangups from base bulges this way.

I haven’t ever used a Bulge Buster or Lee die for sizing a loaded round. Seems to me you’d have a swaged down bullet that way, whereas the reason I went with the greater diameter was for better bore fit and ballistics. I just accept the “Coke bottle” look.

The one modification I’ve done is to have a custom “M” style die made for the SDB; the Dillon expander is undersized, and I wanted something more appropriate for the bullet I cast.

My case gauges, bought when I first started reloading, sit in a box under my bench gathering dust. I use the disassembled barrel of my gun to chamber check. That happens once every thousand or so rounds loaded, since I’ve found this method and my reloading technique works well enough that “no goes” are exceedingly rare.

[Shadowden]

Thanks for the additional tips, especially the process used to help identify the root cause.

I was grateful to get some csst projectiles that were cast and PC'd from a different mould style and weight by another forum member. I haven't spent the time to run numerous dummies, but the size and profile suggests it should work well and the one I did run was successful without trying to optimize success. This bullet is sized to 357, so larger diameter versus mine sized to 356. I had shot a couple thousand round nose cast bullets from a manufacturer (or two), and don't recall having the hiccups.

I will take some time with a marker and some non-fitting dummies and see if I can find anytging consistent.