Suppressor Questions

[dverna]

I am considering the purchase of one or two units.

One is for .223 caliber to be used on both an AR and bolt gun for coyote hunting. If I buy a .30 cal unit that can be used on the .308's, how much worse will it perform than a dedicated .22 cal unit?

The other is for a 9mm carbine. The 9mm will be for home defense and plinking. I do not want a 7" long unit that weighs a pound. Is there anything on the smaller/lighter side that folks recommend.

How often so these need to be cleaned?

My last request is a long shot. I have never used a suppressor or seen one in use. Is there anyone in mid-Michigan who would be willing to host me for a shooting session so I could experience how they perform first hand? I will supply factory ammunition in 9mm and .223 and reloads in .308. If you do not trust my reloads, I will pay for your loads or get a box of factory ammunition. "In trade", if anyone wants to try a good quality PCP gun, I will bring the Daystate for you to enjoy. I am retired so can make any day work.

TIA

[czgunner]

I really don't notice any noise difference when I use a 30 cal can on my 223 rifles other than WAY less gas to face. I have never cleaned mine and do t worry about it. Some people worry about it and soak them or use an ultrasonics cleaner. Not sure how effect that is.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[HWooldridge]

My son has two cans and several threaded rifles. One unit is sized for .22 and the other at .30 cal. He leaves the .22 on a PPK and the .30 is swapped between several rifles, from .223 up to .308 - that includes a 7mm Rem mag and a 6.5 Creedmoor. As CZGUNNER stated, there is almost no sound difference between calibers but you will hear more of a report from the higher velocity rounds. He generally leaves the 30 on the 6.5 for most of the time because that's his primary hog gun. He is not much for cleaning anything and I doubt either can has ever been disassembled. He bought the 22 first when they were first legalized and the 30 came later.

He went down this road because he has four young children and didn't want to always be packing hearing protection for the kids. I think it's a great solution and am considering getting one for myself.

[DougGuy]

A good can on a pistol length 300AAC with 220gr subs sounds like standing next to a car door closing and the gas system works better.

[redriverhunter]

I do not have the experience answers to your questions. I would suggest strongly that your purchase your suppressor from a big company with a long-term history of great customer support and will repair your suppressor if needed. I purchased a rebel suppressor and had a baffle strike, rebel is no longer in business and now I have an expensive paper weight that I had to wait 9 months to get and cost me 200 for a tax stamp.

[Larry Gibson]

I was shooting a multitude of suppressed weapons [22LR, 9mm, 45 ACP and 7.62 Nato] since '66 in the Army. I've had my own 30 cal suppressor since '80. I also now have a 5.56 suppressor and a 45 ACP suppressor.

The 30 cal and 5.56 suppressors are sealed so disassembly for cleaning is not possible. I have shot a lot of jacketed and cast through the 30 cal over the years and have rebuilt it twice [yes I can rebuild it as I am the manufacturer]. I originally thought I could disassemble it to clean but soon found I could not. even with jacketed ammunition they carbon up very quick making disassembly not possible w/o damage to the suppressor. The Silencer Central Banish 30 is supposedly easy to disassemble and they sell a tool for it. However, reading the finer print in the manual shows they suggest cleaning be done after 15 rounds are fired through it (assuming full power loads ?). Realize a 308W match load will hold 42 gr +/- of powder which is a lot of carbon residue when burned and a good suppressor will contain most of that inside it. Same applies with cast bullets, especially lubed bulles. The lube and some lead alloy residue will build up quickly. I mostly shoot jacketed bullets (sonic) or copper coated Berry bullets (subsonic) but do occasionally shoot some lubed cast subsonic through the 30 cal suppressor.

I've also, over the years, put the 30 cal on several different caliber rifles; 22LR, 223/5.56, 6.5x55, 30-30 and 308W. With Sonic ammunition rom behind the gun the muzzle blast is attenuated pretty much the same. However, the sonic crack is considerably different as the diameter, shape and actual speed of the bullet all influence that. Down range past 50 - 100 yards the sound of the gun [mechanical noise and/or the precursor blast is not heard or is masked by the sonic crack.

The 5.56 suppressor is a quick detach requiring a special flash hider on the rifle. It is designed expressly for the AR. However, I have put such flash hiders on sever other 22 cal rifles [22LR, 22 Hornet and 223s] so I can easily switch the actual suppressor to those when wanted. The flash suppressors have the common 1/2x28 threads so they also go on and off easily and a thread protector put on the rifle w/o the suppressor on it. I just shoot jacketed bullets through the 5.56 suppressor with 5.56 ammunition. But also shoot some copper coated 22LRs and occasionally some plain lubed subsonic 22LRs through it. When on the 22Hornet I shoot a 225415 GC'd and lightly coated with LLA for my subsonic load. Had it for a few years now and it doesn't seem to be carboning up too badly. If it does I'll send it back to the manufacturer for cleaning/refurb.

Dedicated 22LR suppressors are a different story and many can be readily disassembled for cleaning. How often I don't know but a friend of mine recently shot 500 rounds of CCI 1070 fps "Target" 22LR through his and it came apart fairly easy for cleaning.

My 45 ACP suppressor can be readily disassembled for cleaning. I use it on a M1911 and my M98 Mauser w/Rhineland conversion. With jacketed bullets I've shot as many as 300 rounds w/o cleaning and it came apart easily. Factory recommends cleaning every 500 rounds of jacketed ammunition. With Lubet or PC'd cast bullets I clean every 100 rounds and the lead, lube and PC fouling build up is there. I've also put the 45 cal suppressor on a 9mm pistol and with subsonic ammunition it sounded pretty much the same as with 45 ACP. However, the recoil impulse was not sufficient for reliable functioning. A different spring in the suppressor would be need for the switch to 9mm Not sure if that applies to all but reading of other such on forums it appears to be a common problem.

Suppressors are the only way to go, especially to save hearing and they add a whole new dimension to pleasurable shooting.

[Kestrel4k]

Having a half-dozen or so, I cannot overemphasize the importance of minimizing FRP - "first round 'pop'"; this being the hardest metric to chart, so you sort of have to go over reviews.
One of my suppressors is a monocore that is particularly bad in this respect - and being paired with a dedicated 35-cal hunting rifle, so really not a very good application.

And yes, I know & have tried the various methods for attenuating this; I still find FRP particularly annoying, and wish I had went a different route for that particular one.

[Kestrel4k]

Since you mentioned 9mm; the best thing I've found about the relatively-lightweight, aluminum-bodied handgun suppressors, is that they can be fantastic for a completely different role:

• 9mm handgun => .357 Mag rifle (16" bbl minimum)
• 45ACP handgun => .44Mag rifle (16" bbl minimum)

Am not flying by the seat of my pants here; simply contacting the manufacturer can determine if the above application(s) are within their design envelopes.

With only 12oz up front & the stout Boyds laminate stock, the balance on this particular 44Mag rifle is /perfect/:


And here's a sub-11oz 9mm handgun suppressor on an M1 Carbine:

[Leadmad]

I've got several suppressors on a variety of calibers a couple are sealed and have been in use for many years and with the exception of the 223 the 30 cals have shot a bunch of cast and jacketed with no ill effects from not being cleaned that I can tell, I also have 2 DPT suppressors one on a 30/06 and the other a 450 bushmaster cal Remington 783, both shoot a mixture of cast and jacketed and as the DPT is almost fully able to be disassembled I do clean it after use but there is very little residue its mostly to spray some wd40 inside and grease the threads of the baffles. Unless there is a very high round count, I wouldn't worry about a sealed suppressor clogging up.

http://www.dpt.co.nz/

Cheers

[dverna]

Since you mentioned 9mm; the best thing I've found about the relatively-lightweight, aluminum-bodied handgun suppressors, is that they can be fantastic for a completely different role:

• 9mm handgun => .357 Mag rifle (16" bbl minimum)
• 45ACP handgun => .44Mag rifle (16" bbl minimum)

Am not flying by the seat of my pants here; simply contacting the manufacturer can determine if the above application(s) are within their design envelopes.

With only 12oz up front & the stout Boyds laminate stock, the balance on this particular 44Mag rifle is /perfect/:


And here's a sub-11oz 9mm handgun suppressor on an M1 Carbine:

I am looking at the 9mm suppressor on a carbine not a pistol so your post was interesting.

I figured if the balance was too far off, I could add lead to the butt stock.

One question for you. On the .357 Mag, do you still need hearing protection for a say a 100 round range session?

[Kestrel4k]

[...] One question for you. On the .357 Mag, do you still need hearing protection for a say a 100 round range session?

Subsonic handloads, borderline. Some of the .38Spl factory loads were actually pretty loud - even through a suppressor.
Supersonic .357Mag - "What?" :-/

I have a pic of my 77/357 somewhere, but it pretty much looks like that 77/44 so didn't bother looking.

The first two things I learned about shooting 38Spl from a rifle; factory loads can still be pretty loud, and they /really/ suck for accuracy - and that's almost across the board. The exception was Federal American Eagle 158gr LRN, BTW - all commercial jacketed were /terrible/ for accuracy.
It's good to have that capability (i.e. cheap subsonic factory ammo), but the greatest handloading improvement I've ever gotten was with that rifle. :-/

What's great is being able to use .38Spl brass however; on average I was able to obtain better subsonic accuracy across multiple powder choices, due to the decreased case capacity.

Although the pic below is a 230gr Wadcutter in 357Mag brass (to ensure feeding for worst-case), I did get slightly better subsonic accuracy using 38Spl brass, for example.

[243winxb]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...#post-12844971

See links in post # 74 .


Here is one- https://www.ssusa.org/content/transl...%20jackhammer.

[elmacgyver0]

I initially was going to buy a Hybrid 46, but they were out of stock.
Then I found Silencer Central and saw a video of a lady hunter advertising a just released suppressor, the Banish 46 that is fully serviceable.
The Banish 46 can be used on about anything, I use mine on a .45-70 Gov.
I also bought the Neilson device for pistols.
My only complaint is it is a big honker to put on a pistol, it is built like a tank, it has to be in order to handle things like .338 Lapua, .300 Win Mag and the like.
Since it is built almost entirely of titanium it is not as heavy as it looks, but it is still pretty hefty. It is a fantastic suppressor for rifles.
Since then, I also purchased the Banish 45, strictly a pistol suppressor, and a Banish 22 for rimfire.
All my suppressors are serviceable which in my opinion is a big deal.
I figured if I was going to buy a 200-dollar permission slip and wait the long waiting period, I wasn't going to go cheap.
If you decide to go with a non-serviceable unit, weigh it before you ever shoot it, then when you clean it, you will know how effective you were.
If you clean your guns, you probably should be cleaning your suppressor also.

[buyobuyo]

I do not have the experience answers to your questions. I would suggest strongly that your purchase your suppressor from a big company with a long-term history of great customer support and will repair your suppressor if needed. I purchased a rebel suppressor and had a baffle strike, rebel is no longer in business and now I have an expensive paper weight that I had to wait 9 months to get and cost me 200 for a tax stamp.

You might want to look into Griffin Armament's Red Cross program.

https://www.griffinarmament.com/prom...fin-red-cross/

[Rapier]

Really suggest that you do not buy a can that can not be disassembled for cleaning.
My 358 can is as quiet with 223s as is the 6.5 can. No can has holes at the diameter shown, all are larger to prevent bullet strikes, just to start with.
I bought one can, a Liberty Torch QC can. After that I have never bought another can, all of my cans are Form I, me built cans. 1/4 the time wait, easy file online, as the maker you can modify or repair, etc. If you can repair a bathroom sink you can build a can. My corporation is the owner / manufacturer of the cans. On NFA items you need to have a means to transfer ownership in event of death or disability. Otherwise the NFA item must be turned in, usual vehicle for transfer is a LLC, Trust, Corporation, etc.
I no longer use a quick connect setup, I prefer and just use a straight direct thread on system as being the actual KISS system.
First shot is not quiet, regardless of the Jollywood movies, that use only air guns, to make a puff, puff, noise. The action makes noise, the bullet impact, is loud, when everything is very quiet, similar to a 22 rifle with a standard velocity round being shot.

Ths is my latest can, it is an 8" titanium can, anodized, using baking soda, distilled water, an aluminum strip and five 9 volt batteries in series.

[JimB..]

First rule of suppressors is to get one for 22lr, it’ll put a grin on your face every time.
I lost interest in a 223 can years ago because they were absolutely not hearing safe, not sure if that has changed.
I shoot 38 spcl, 9mm and 300blk through a Liberty can, both pistol and carbine are hearing safe.

[dverna]

Thanks guys. I am learning a lot.

I dismissed a .22LR can early on because I have stopped plinking much with .22's in a rifle. That is what the PCPs are now used for. Our .22 pistols are target guns so adding a can does not make sense. BTW, one (of many) advantages of the PCPs is no hearing protection.

Jim B, your info on the .223 can is germane. I hope to do a lot more .223 shooting this year, and if I still need to wear muffs/plugs a can loses its appeal. Hoping others will chime in who have thoughts/experience on that. If the same can will work on the 9mm carbine, then it will be worth doing.

I acquired a 147 gr mold for the 9mm and hope to get a subsonic load for it. Ballistics by the Inch shows I should be able to get there with a 16.5" barrel. My preferred bullet is the 124 gr XTP but plinking with a subsonic would be a lot of fun if we can ditch the muffs.

Rapier, I will give some thought on making my own. I have a lathe and it would be a neat project if I can do it legally. If I go that route, I will PM you. I have already decided on a trust to own the can so it can be easily transferred. That was good advice for others looking at this.

[rockrat]

Take this with a grain of salt, so to speak. I was told by others that right now, BATFE frowns on the self-built cans because of the fuel filter/flashlight/solvent traps and that if you do build one, it would be a good idea to send in a pic of your lathe with your application, to show that you are actually going to build you own can.

[Larry Gibson]

My Gemtech 5.56/223 suppressor is hearing safe with the exception of if used indoors. Outside or at the range (even with an over head cover) all you hear of the sonic crack is it going away from you. The crack is somewhat like a standard velocity 22LR but it does not ring your ears. I've measured the decibels and the decibel reading is less than 22LR. I shoot a Contender carbine and my AR all the time with it on and hearing protection is not needed. Might pick up more noise if at a range with overhead baffles in front of the line but that is the sound echoing off those.

With sub sonic we must remember the larger the diameter, the blunter the nose the louder the noise will be. Also remember it is the speed of the air moving over/around the bullet ogive that determines when it will 'crack. It is not the velocity of the bullet but rather the velocity of that air moving around the bullet nose. Also, sub sonic ammunition in handguns may exceed the when fired out of a rifle and can "crack". Most subsonic 300 BO load in 10" +/- barrels will "crack" when fired in 16 -20" barrels because of the velocity increase. Some 45 ACP with pushes 900 - 1000 fps out of my 5" M1911 and is very quiet with the suppressor on it will "crack" when fired in my 16 1/2" Rhineland conversion barrel because of the velocity increase.

To minimize "FRP - "first round 'pop'" with M21s with Sionics suppressors on them just before departing we would fire a round, leave the next round chambered and put a small "patch" of 90 mile an hour tape across the suppressor muzzle. That works well as the oxygen and cleaning solvent residue (the cause of FRP) is burned off inside the suppressor with that first shot. I have done the same when hunting with my own 5.56 and 30 cal suppressors and it seems to greatly minimize the FRP.

[dverna]

My Gemtech 5.56/223 suppressor is hearing safe with the exception of if used indoors. Outside or at the range (even with an over head cover) all you hear of the sonic crack is it going away from you. The crack is somewhat like a standard velocity 22LR but it does not ring your ears. I've measured the decibels and the decibel reading is less than 22LR. I shoot a Contender carbine and my AR all the time with it on and hearing protection is not needed. Might pick up more noise if at a range with overhead baffles in front of the line but that is the sound echoing off those.

With sub sonic we must remember the larger the diameter, the blunter the nose the louder the noise will be. Also remember it is the speed of the air moving over/around the bullet ogive that determines when it will 'crack. It is not the velocity of the bullet but rather the velocity of that air moving around the bullet nose. Also, sub sonic ammunition in handguns may exceed the when fired out of a rifle and can "crack". Most subsonic 300 BO load in 10" +/- barrels will "crack" when fired in 16 -20" barrels because of the velocity increase. Some 45 ACP with pushes 900 - 1000 fps out of my 5" M1911 and is very quiet with the suppressor on it will "crack" when fired in my 16 1/2" Rhineland conversion barrel because of the velocity increase.

To minimize "FRP - "first round 'pop'" with M21s with Sionics suppressors on them just before departing we would fire a round, leave the next round chambered and put a small "patch" of 90 mile an hour tape across the suppressor muzzle. That works well as the oxygen and cleaning solvent residue (the cause of FRP) is burned off inside the suppressor with that first shot. I have done the same when hunting with my own 5.56 and 30 cal suppressors and it seems to greatly minimize the FRP.

Excellent info! Thanks