Where did the full-size snubbies go?

[jdgabbard]

Recently I got to thinking it might be time to find another carry revolver. I used to carry a S&W 10 Airweight with a 2" barrel. That was a fantastic pistol, full size grip, short barrel, full 6-shot capacity. But back in the mid-2000s I ended up trading it offer and moving to J-Frame size revolvers. Opting for a little more concealability, at the expense of slightly less capacity and a smaller grip.

More recently, living in the Free State which I live in, I have decided I just don't care as much about concealability these days as I once did. And if I need to, I have other options for carry. This has me out searching for something to meet the criteria. Only to my dismay, there seems to be somewhat lacking availability of such firearms. The perfect gun in my opinion would be S&W 13/19/65 with a 2" barrel. Catch is, I don't think S&W ever made such a beast, looks like the shortest barrels they offered for the 357magnum guns were the 3" variety - unless I'm missing something. Which breaks my heart....

On the new market, there appears to be a relatively small number of 6-shot revolvers offered with 2"-ish barrels: Taurus 856 (and whatever the Rossi version is), the GP-100 (a bit heavy for everyday carry), Colt Night Cobra, Kimber K6. The Taurus and Rossi variants are not offered in 357, only 38 Special. As mentioned the GP is a little heavy for everyday carry. The Colt is nice, but man is that one expensive for a snubbie. And the Kimber, I've never been impressed with their 1911, let alone some newly designed revolver I've never heard of.... S&W does offer a performance center Model 19 with Ported Barrel and Adjustable sights. But not just a plain jane 2" 6-shot 357magnum without the nonsense.

There are older guns out there, notably the Taurus 606. Which is unobtanium, considering it's been discontinued for nearly 20 years. There was a 6-shot Rossi copy made into the mid-2000s at least, but I can't remember the model number. There is the modern RP63, but it has a 3" barrel, doesn't seem they offer anything in 2" these days.

I have half a mind to see if I can find another Model 65 police gun, and a barrel and ejector rod from a 2" Model 64, and send it off to have it Frankenstein'd. Yeah, they'd have to trim the forcing cone area of the barrel. But it could be made to work I think... Might not be able to fully eject the spent cases, but compromises.....

Am I missing something? Where did all of the full-size 6-shot 357magnums go? I swear it seemed like there used to be a lot more on the market....

[Recycled bullet]

I want to see your frankengun when it's completed. I've also been looking at the Red Hawk 357 snubby and k6 snubby.

[jdgabbard]

I want to see your frankengun when it's completed. I've also been looking at the Red Hawk 357 snubby and k6 snubby.

Well, Numrich does list the barrel....But it is not in stock. So I'd need to find one, and a decent Model 65 or Model 19 to go along with it.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/302300

[rintinglen]

I feel your pain. but you are overlooking a couple of excellent candidates.

First, the Ruger Speed/Service/Security Six series: they made a million and a half of them and they are generally cheaper than the S&W's. Now, they generally don't have as nice a trigger as a comparable S&W and they came with a 2 3/4" barrel option, but they are darned fine guns that are stronger than their Springfield Mass rivals. The drawback is that parts are not as available, so if something does break, you may find yourself with a new boat anchor. I have two, a 357 Speed Six and a Service Six, both with 2 3/4 inch barrels. I recently had to shove both hands in my pockets to keep from buying a Security Six snubbie to keep them company. The 357 Speed Six is in my winter CCW rotation. This is the gun I would look for if I was in your boots.


The other choice is the S&W 19/66 357 series. The 19 was the blued version and was a very popular choice with Investigators and Detectives back in the 60's, 70's and 80's, with the 66 coming along a bit later. I have a 66 which is one of my house guns. The problem with these is that they have become very expensive. If the new Colt Cobra makes you say ouch, these will make your wallet squeal like a pig. Good onesrun well on the long side of a 1000 bucks these days. The 2 1/2 barrel also has been criticized for not allowing full extraction of Magnum cases. There are scores of Gunsmiths who can make a K-frame Smith roll smooth as silk if your sample is a little rough. The chief drawback of the K-frame 357's is the barrel. They made a cutaway at the bottom of the forcing cone to allow clearance for the gas ring which will allow the barrel to crack there after as few as 1,000 full power mag loads. However, they will outlast you if restricted to a diet of mostly 38's with only occasional 357 usage. The newer ones are made on an odd ball frame, bigger than a K-frame but smaller than an L-frame, with a 3 inch barrel for full length extraction. The larger frame allows for a stronger forcing cone and should eliminate the barrel cracking problem. They are slightly cheaper than the older ones.


Another gun that is more of a curiosity and a collectors item would be the Dan Wesson Model 14. While the 2 1/2 inch version is pretty common, they also made a few with 2 " barrels. Rock Island Armory has their AL3 model 357.

Finally, if you are not married to a 357, there are plenty of K-frame 38's out there that will give excellent service despite their age. There are also some Colt Official Police models, as well as the Lawman 357, though these tend to command collectors prices these days. And I wouldn't totally discount the GP100. I have a 44 Special that sometimes rides on my hip in the winter.

[eastbank]

one lives here and is not going any where.

[sigep1764]

SW has an 8 shot 2.6 inch 357. It’s called tha Performance Center 627. Bit pricy.

[jdgabbard]

I feel your pain. but you are overlooking a couple of excellent candidates.

First, the Ruger Speed/Service/Security Six series: they made a million and a half of them and they are generally cheaper than the S&W's. Now, they generally don't have as nice a trigger as a comparable S&W and they came with a 2 3/4" barrel option, but they are darned fine guns that are stronger than their Springfield Mass rivals. The drawback is that parts are not as available, so if something does break, you may find yourself with a new boat anchor. I have two, a 357 Speed Six and a Service Six, both with 2 3/4 inch barrels. I recently had to shove both hands in my pockets to keep from buying a Security Six snubbie to keep them company. The 357 Speed Six is in my winter CCW rotation. This is the gun I would look for if I was in your boots.


The other choice is the S&W 19/66 357 series. The 19 was the blued version and was a very popular choice with Investigators and Detectives back in the 60's, 70's and 80's, with the 66 coming along a bit later. I have a 66 which is one of my house guns. The problem with these is that they have become very expensive. If the new Colt Cobra makes you say ouch, these will make your wallet squeal like a pig. Good onesrun well on the long side of a 1000 bucks these days. The 2 1/2 barrel also has been criticized for not allowing full extraction of Magnum cases. There are scores of Gunsmiths who can make a K-frame Smith roll smooth as silk if your sample is a little rough. The chief drawback of the K-frame 357's is the barrel. They made a cutaway at the bottom of the forcing cone to allow clearance for the gas ring which will allow the barrel to crack there after as few as 1,000 full power mag loads. However, they will outlast you if restricted to a diet of mostly 38's with only occasional 357 usage. The newer ones are made on an odd ball frame, bigger than a K-frame but smaller than an L-frame, with a 3 inch barrel for full length extraction. The larger frame allows for a stronger forcing cone and should eliminate the barrel cracking problem. They are slightly cheaper than the older ones.


Another gun that is more of a curiosity and a collectors item would be the Dan Wesson Model 14. While the 2 1/2 inch version is pretty common, they also made a few with 2 " barrels. Rock Island Armory has their AL3 model 357.

Finally, if you are not married to a 357, there are plenty of K-frame 38's out there that will give excellent service despite their age. There are also some Colt Official Police models, as well as the Lawman 357, though these tend to command collectors prices these days. And I wouldn't totally discount the GP100. I have a 44 Special that sometimes rides on my hip in the winter.

As strange as this may sound, I have yet to ever see a Speed/Service/Security Six in the wild. They just don't appear to have been that common in Oklahoma. I have seen SP-101s, GP-100s, and various Blackhawks. But never one of the service pistols. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. But they don't seem to have been super popular here. I can probably find several online and have them ordered. I'll have to look into the others.

I have seen the 19s and 66s, but generally only with the 4" barrels. I have seen one with a 3" barrel. Like I mentioned before, the ideal pistol would be the 19/65 with the 2" barrel, fixed sights preferred. Similar to the second and third thumbnails you attached, I believe those two are Model 10s, which I can find. And I'm not exactly married to the 357 magnum, I just think that it is preferable in a smaller gun to maximize velocity. You loose a decent amount of velocity in a 2" gun with 38spl...

As for the K-Frame forcing cone issues, If I'm not mistaken that and the frame cutting issues were attributed to full power 125gr HP loads. I have a model 65 that probably has close to 2k worth of magnum loads through it without any forcing cone issues. That isn't including the over 20k of 38spl loads I've run through it. And I bought this gun used....an old Police Trade in. No telling how many rounds have gone down range from this thing. With that in mind, I am not sold that the forcing cone issue is as big of an issue as it has been made out to be.

one lives here and is not going any where.

Nice Model 10! I really did like mine. Wish I wouldn't have gotten rid of it. The old man has one similar to yours with the Tyler T-Grip added to it. VERY NICE gun....Someday it'll be mine.

SW has an 8 shot 2.6 inch 357. It’s called tha Performance Center 627. Bit pricy.

Yeah, I have see that one. I guess that one does technically qualify as full-sized. I was thinking more of a 6 shot K-Frame. But that is an option.....

[david s]

About a year and a half ago a fair number of 3-inch model 65's hit the market. I believe they were ex-military trade-ins. You might do a bit of searching online and see if any are still available.

[jdgabbard]

About a year and a half ago a fair number of 3-inch model 65's hit the market. I believe they were ex-military trade-ins. You might do a bit of searching online and see if any are still available.

I'll take a look. But honestly, would prefer a 2" - 2.5" model.

[shooting on a shoestring]

If you’re mainly interested in 6 shots with 2” barrels, Lipsey’s has a S&W 6 shot 32 H&R J-Frame just put called the Ultimate Carry. It comes with night sights and VZ grips.

Of course the Ruger LCR in 327 Federal is a wicked 6 shot 2” snubby.

And don’t forget the Colt Detective Special. It’s bigger than a J-Frame, 6 shot in 38 Spl. Still quite a few around.

S&W did produce 2.5” Model 19’s and 66’s. They’re out there but ones I have seen had lots of carry wear and were priced $1000 - $1500.

I see a couple of 2” Model 10’s in Houston for just under $1000.

Not many people want a 2” K-Frame. But those who do will pay lots of money to get them. Really though, probably worth it!

[wgg]

I am a fan of the Ruger Six series. I understand they are not supported by Ruger by way of extra parts. I have a blue 4" Security Six 357. While looking on gunbroker I found a stainless Ruger Service Six that had the frame cut in two. I recieved all the revolver parts minus the butt half of the frame. It cost me $75.00 or so. I was not concerned about parts breaking, but if it does I am in good shape. I am looking for a Speed / Service Six at this time.

[country gent]

The k frame was a standard for many years. Another one to look at is the L frame 686. I believe they made some with 2-3" barrels. Chambered in 357 and they were designed to handle full house magnum.
Another to consider is one of the L frames in scandium titanium lighter yet full sized.

[stubshaft]

The very first pistol I shot was my Dads S&W Mdl. 19 round butt snubbie and I have maintained a mania for them over the years. Although it is a little thick in the cylinder, I've been toting this lately.

[Papercidal]

If I recall the combat magnum snubbies where 2.5” I’ve got a 19-3 in 2.5”

[Wheelgun]

The Speed-6s are great guns, but you’re right about being rare around here.
The 3” S&W 65s are excellent, though expensive, and I don’t notice any difference in carrying vs a 2” M64.

The 2 3/4” M19 or 66 are very sweet as well if you don’t mind adjustable sights, but they will run close to a Grand-1300 for a pre-lock around here. Same with the 3” 625 in 45acp

If you want new & don’t have to have a 357, I’ve been looking really hard at that new S&W Ultimate Carry 32 J-frame. Also a Sp-101 in 32h&r or 327 are 6shot and very nice but some say they’re heavy

[pete501]

S&W Model 10 "Airweight"? Model 12 was an airweight version of the model 10.

A S&W 337pd in an ankle rig works for me. I would choose comfort over 6 shots of magnum power.

What about a larger grip set for your j frames, I have herrett stocks on a 37 3" that makes it feel less like a j frame.

Think hard about the pros and cons of 38 vs 357. If you load the magnums with H110 in the 2-1/2" m-66 you can really impress your range buddies with the basketball size muzzle flash (Pro or Con?). Personally, I prefer less recoil and easier follow-up shots.

[tja6435]

I like the Ruger Speed Six’s with 2.75” barrel. I have a GP100 with 2.5” barrel and a a S&W 66 no dash with 2.5” barrel. The 66 is probably the skinniest but it’s worth too much to carry. I usually go for a Speed Six, they’re undervalued in my opinion. I got all of my Six’s for $300-450 (4 different guns)

[jdgabbard]

The Speed-6s are great guns, but you’re right about being rare around here.
The 3” S&W 65s are excellent, though expensive, and I don’t notice any difference in carrying vs a 2” M64.

The 2 3/4” M19 or 66 are very sweet as well if you don’t mind adjustable sights, but they will run close to a Grand-1300 for a pre-lock around here. Same with the 3” 625 in 45acp

If you want new & don’t have to have a 357, I’ve been looking really hard at that new S&W Ultimate Carry 32 J-frame. Also a Sp-101 in 32h&r or 327 are 6shot and very nice but some say they’re heavy

Yeah, I haven't seen one in person here. Not sure why that is, maybe the departments of the 80s and 90s just preferred and/or required/suggested S&W. You don't even see a ton of Colts in Oklahoma, and I've lived on both ends of the state. Very strange, we're kind of a one brand state....

As for the adjustable sights, that's the one factor that has kept me from buying a few pistols I've seen, the adjustable sights. They don't really have a place on a Snubby in my opinion. But I guess since the LEO around the world have moved to semiautos we have to deal with the models on the market...

Maybe I'm just being a bit picky, which is always possible. I am most definitely looking at 38spl to 357mag. The 32H&R or 327 Federal simply haven't garnered my support at this time as a defensive load. I'm not saying they're not. I'm saying they don't have the track record of the 38cal rounds. And I'm not sure they ever will have the volume of examples we have with the other two. And for me, that is enough to stay with the 38spl and 357magnum, leaning towards the magnum...

S&W Model 10 "Airweight"? Model 12 was an airweight version of the model 10.

A S&W 337pd in an ankle rig works for me. I would choose comfort over 6 shots of magnum power.

What about a larger grip set for your j frames, I have herrett stocks on a 37 3" that makes it feel less like a j frame.

Think hard about the pros and cons of 38 vs 357. If you load the magnums with H110 in the 2-1/2" m-66 you can really impress your range buddies with the basketball size muzzle flash (Pro or Con?). Personally, I prefer less recoil and easier follow-up shots.

It was definitely a Model 10, in an alloy frame. Can't remember which dash, but most definitely stamped as model 10.

I have larger grips for my J-frames. Small grips don't exactly fit my hand. That said, it's not just about the size of grips. Adding the extra round, with a full size frame, equals more mass. More mass, easier to shoot. That said, I do have an SP-101, which is heavy for it's size. But...it's a 5-shot.

I have thought about it. Don't take this wrong, but I have been shooting magnum pistols since I was about 12 years old. And I'm very comfortable with them. I don't see many cons to the magnum except for increased recoil and muzzle flash. And those two items can be mitigated with exposure to them. And not every load is going to have a muzzle flash so incredibly bright. And even if it did, there are 38spl loads out there that suffer from the same problem. I have a 125gr HP load with the 38spl that has about an 16" fireball which is very visable at the indoor range. I actually made a post about this several months back, trying to find other options for powder with a lower flash. But more importantly, VELOCITY is the greatest concern when dealing with Snubbies. Snubbies simply loose a lot of it due to the short barrel. 38 Special loads do become somewhat anemic with really short barrels, while the Magnum loads will retain more of their velocity potential.

[txbirdman]

Here are my 2 snubbies in .357. They are my 19-3 and 640-3. For a carry gun I much prefer the 640. It weighs 20 oz and has a 2 1/8” barrel which is borderline for pocket carry but I find it as easy to hit with as the k frame 19 using Hornady Critical Defense 135 gr. The 640 I has been “snag free” for me and with the Ahernd grips is very controllable. Of course, you’re giving up 1 round when compared to the k frames but 5 rounds of .357 is a pretty good payload.

[Tracy]

2" medium frame .357s have always been rare. As for the 2-3/4" Ruger Six series, they may not be common in OK but they're not hard to find overall. I've had a couple of them and really like them a lot. However, they handle and carry more like a 3" than a 2".
Your idea of fitting a snub .38 barrel to a Model 65 or similar is a good one. Or, it might be easier to find a Model 10 or 64 snubby and fit a .357 cylinder to it. That's probably what I would do if I were looking for something like that. In fact I would probably get a 10 snubby and carry it in stock form while looking for a donor .357 cylinder and a gunsmith to install it. Some of the specialty ammo makers can supply .38 +P+ ammo that is very close to .357 performance, so you wouldn't be losing much while you shop for a cylinder.