Loads for a 16" .38-55

[Gray Fox]

Tomorrow I'm picking up a near-new Winchester-Miroku 16" 1885 Trapper in .38-55. I've got 250-grain black moly-coated bullets from Bear Creek Supply in .379, and a new Lee 2-cav 250-grain mold. I have Reloader 7, IMR 3031, ACC 5744, H4895, IMR 4064, and Unique. I have several manuals, but they all show loads for long barrels. I'm looking for advice for loads up to the 1400-1600 fps range if possible, as well as some good shooting Unique loads. I would try holy black, but I doubt it would perform well in that short barrel--would I be wrong to think that? All advice on how to make this rifle perform well will be appreciated. GF

[elmacgyver0]

I think you are wise to keep black power away from your fine rifle.
As much as I love black powder, I keep it away from my cartridge guns as much as possible.
Perfectly ok if you can clean your guns after shooting, but sometimes that is not possible, and if you are a bit absentminded like me and totally forget, it can be disastrous.
Don't ask me how I know.

[Texas by God]

Unique would be a good starting point, then work up to your other powders.
I use Unique for plinking and practicing and I switch to IMR 4198 for hunting loads to flatten the trajectory a bit. My 38-55 has a 20” barrel.
That’s a neat little single shot that you have.


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[Cast10]

Be sure and slug it. My NEW Sporter slugged .375, and Winchester so stated. 24” Barrel and I use IMR4198. 4895 will leave lots of unturned powder in tube.

[Tatume]

H4895 will perform well. Data are available at:

https://hodgdonreloading.com/

[gc45]

In your trapper, 1500fps is going to be a thumper on your shoulder.

[Mk42gunner]

Well at least you aren't going to be lacking in action strength.

I don't know if your wished for velocities are possible with a 16" barrel while staying in the sane range for loads. I don't think Unique will get you there.

My Marlin 336CB seems to like powder in the 2400-4198 range, although its barrel is eight inches longer than yours. To be honest about it, I have not fired it over a chronograph yet; I'm still working on loads.

Robert

[beltfed]

The Alliant Reloader 7 works very well in my 38-55 Marlin 336CB . It is similar in burn rate to the 4198 and it meters Well.
as well as in my 21" Contender 375Win and it worked well in the Bullberry 16 in 375 Win/ported.
The Contender does kick "well".
I was shooting a moderate 38-55 load from the lyman #50 handbook of 28 grains Re 7
under the lyman 379248 ,255gr or the 375449 ,265 gr gas checked bullet.
I think it listed as about 1750fps
beltfed/arnie

[blackpowder man]

I have a Miroku High Wall in .38-55 with a 22” barrel and it slugged around .375 as I recall. I’ve shot a lot of black powder theough it. It shoots great with the Lee 250 or the RCBS bpcr mold that is 300+ grains. It also does well with IMR 3031. With round balls and Unique it makes a fun accurate plinker.

[Gray Fox]

Thanks for all the input, folks. I picked the rifle up today and it is a real gem. I guess I'm the third owner. The guy I bought it from had bought four boxes of HSM 240-grain cowboy loads, fired two rounds and decided that it was just too small for his 6'3" lanky frame. It's marked "Winchester 1885 Limited Series SRC 16.5"--Caliber .38-55 Win. ONLY. The latter I suppose to say not to put .375 Win. in it. Do any of you have any idea when it might have been made? I had a Williams aperture sight that I had taken off my 1885 Browning .45-70 and it went right in the two rear sight base holes on the receiver bridge. This is sure a sweet little rifle, and if I had the place to woods walk with it the Unique loads under the Lee 250 grainer would sure make for a day's worth of fun. GF

[Mk42gunner]

A wild guess says the first decade of this century. It may be newer than that, but I think Miroku was still marking them Browning in the 1990's.

Robert

[gnoahhh]

I'm amused to finally meet someone who actually owns one of these things and wants to shoot it! I've seen them languish on the discount racks in gunshops for years because nobody wanted such a short barrel. I did know a guy who bought one on Gunbroker just to harvest the action out of it for a custom build though.

[Gray Fox]

I'm going to have to put one of the Limbsaver recoil boots on it just to get more length of pull, and taking the edge off that sharp-edged metal butt place will be an added benefit.

[P Flados]

I understand that the short barrel does not match up with much existing load data and this is going to make you question what powders are best if you are trying to push velocities.

The following Quickload info is not load data, but it might help you deal with the short barrel concerns.

I have seen lots of posts with folks running Unique and have seen 10.4 gr listed as max with a 250. Quickload goes a little further, but I would not exceed published data with Unique. It is too easy to just use a different powder if you want to go faster.

The 5744 seems to get some use in the 38-55 and the info below says it will get you close to top velocity with a lot less powder used.

RL 7 is worth trying if you want just a little more than 5744 will do.

If you are really trying for maximum speed, 3031 seems to be your best pick.

Cartridge          : .38-55 Win.
Bullet             : .379, 250, LEE C379-250-1R
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.510 inch = 63.75 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031                           108.2     35.7     2.31    1790    87.0    30458    6053   1.185  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                      103.1     36.4     2.36    1757    79.4    30458    5692   1.196  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7                   88.1     30.1     1.95    1739    93.2    30458    5236   1.216  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                           108.7     36.3     2.35    1710    76.8    30458    5253   1.205  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744                       72.3     24.4     1.58    1690    93.4    30458    4815   1.212  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant UNIQUE                      53.4     12.1     0.79    1381   100.0    30458    2307   1.323  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant UNIQUE                      45.6     10.4     0.67    1265   100.0    23300    2007   1.486

[Gray Fox]

Thanks for that data. That 10.4 Unique load looks like a great walk around load. I sure wish there were jackrabbits in GA. I'll bet they'd eat all the kudzu they could reach.

I did put a medium-sized Limbsaver boot on the rifle and it made the length of pull just right for me and makes it easier to use the aperture sight. I just bore-sighted it to 50 yards and and am planning the next range trip.

[Lance Boyle]

I'm amused to finally meet someone who actually owns one of these things and wants to shoot it! I've seen them languish on the discount racks in gunshops for years because nobody wanted such a short barrel. I did know a guy who bought one on Gunbroker just to harvest the action out of it for a custom build though.

I was almost going to do the same when CDNN had the left overs to sell off. They had .38-55, .30-40 and .45-70. Just too short for the .30-40 which I think would have been a sweetheart in the high wall. I was getting ready to pull the trigger when CDNN suddenly raised the price 2-3 hundred bucks killing my desire.

[pbcaster45]

Well... my barrel is a lot longer but here are a few loads anyway!

Bullet: Cast Performance 260 gr. LFNGC (.380)
Powder: 20.0 grs. Accurate 5744
Primer: Wolf Large Rifle
Case: Winchester
Average Velocity: 1523.78 fps
ES: 30.32
SD: 14.10

Bullet: Buffalo Arms 275 gr. FN (.379/SPG/1-20 alloy)
Powder: 20.0 grs. IMR 4198
Primer: CCI-200
Case: Starline 2.125
OAL: 2.562
Average Velocity: 1538.01 fps
ES: 37.54
SD: 14.10

Bullet: Buffalo Arms 275 gr. FN (.379/SPG/1-20 alloy)
Powder: 21.0 gr. IMR 4198
Primer: CCI-200
Case: Winchester
Average Velocity: 1578.21 fps
ES: 42.85
SD: 14.79

Bullet: Beartooth Bullets 265 gr. FNGC (.378/Lyman 375449)
Powder: 24.0 grs. Hodgdon H4895
Primer: CCI-200
Case: Starline 2.125
Average Velocity: 1351.57 fps
ES: 36.96
SD: 19.00
Comments: Very light taper crimp to ease chambering. Very dirty burning and underpowered.

I probably should give H4895 another try, it might burn cleaner with a heavier charge.

My rifle is a 30-inch Cimarron 1885 Hi-Wall with a set of Steve Baldwin sights.



Just started trying paper patch bullets in it but haven't got very far with my load development.

Bullet: Montana Precision Swaging 250 gr. RN (paper-patch/.381/Lee Alox)
Powder: 18.0 grs. Accurate 5744
Primer: Winchester Large Rife
Case: Winchester
OAL: 2.530
Comments: Unsized cases belled with RCBS .379 expander plug. Used 20lb. Bond Printer Paper (.0035 thick). Bullets sized with Lee .380 Bullet Sizer Die.

[farmbif]

I was going to say 21 grains of 4198. but pbcaster beat me to it. Ive shot that load often in my 375 win with both 38-55 and 375 brass with both of the Lyman bullets and from the lee mold also. 20-21 grains 4198. the kick is about the same as shooting a 30-30