450/400 NE 3" lead loads

[Professor]

Im getting started loading for a Ruger no1 450/400 ne 3"
Anybody here loading lead bullets for this cartridge?i bought the MP 413 265 gc mold. Several guys suggested this bullet with 5744 and H4198. I dont have either powder. I do have a pound of IMR 4198. The 5744 loads do not call for dacron filler but the h4198 does. Anybody here using alternatives? The limited published data cover broad range of mid and slow powders. I appreciate any insights.

[Golfswithwolves]

Professor- You are certainly correct about the lack of data for reloading the 450/400. There is some info in the Hornady 8th loading manual, but only for 400 grain bullets. You might try Trail Boss powder as a starting point; I've used this with success but only with 400 grain cast bullets (the manufacturer of this powder was helpful with suggestions when I called them). Good luck, Bob

[dtknowles]

I did a quick search to see if I could find you something. No load data but a nice article with maybe a link to load data.

I think you can use the 400 gr. data with your lighter bullet

https://revivaler.com/the-450-400-3-nitro-express/

Tim

[Professor]

Im testing some light 280gr gc pc lead and found 400gr Woodleighs. Imr4198 with foam backing rod for the lights and h4831sc for the heavy. Its a heck of a cartridge.

[15meter]

I've got some data I worked up for William Evans double rifle.

I'll have to dig it out, I too did some work with Woodleigh bullets in addition to cast loads.

Buddy took a quite nice South African Cape Buffalo last May with the Woodleigh's.

[LIMPINGJ]

Here’s some loads I saved.
.450/.400 BPE and NE Data

From: Solving Problems in English, K. Waters, Handloader's Digest, 6th Ed.

"The 450/400-2 ⅜" B.P.E. (Black Powder Express)

Years ago I cobbled up ammunition in this caliber for a nice little Alex Henry single-shot with right-side hammer. I recall that I used to thin the rims of .348 Winchester cases (removing brass from the front side only), then full-length resize and fire-form. The case which resulted was 1/10" short, but seating bullets farther out took care of that and I wasn't dependent on any imported components.

With a muzzle velocity considerably under 2000 fps, I was able to use 260-gr. plain base cast bullets sized .406" - .407", from a mould originally intended for the .40-65 and .40-82 Winchesters. This can still be done to produce darn fine deer loads at short range."

450/400-2 ⅜" B.P.E. - 260 cast lead - 35.0 - IMR3031 - Win. 120 primer

The 450/400-3¼" B.P.E.

Taking the same bullets as the preceding 2 ⅜" case, new empty unprimed Kynoch cases using the No. 172 Berdan primer are still available (1972) from Oregon Ammunition Service. There is simply no alternative, much as we'd like to use Boxer primers.

During the years when the Connecticut Cartridge Co. was making bullets for old American calibers, I used to load their 260-gr., .406" jacketed soft points, with large exposed lead noses, in a 450/400 Purdey hammerless double rifle, but with that source of supply closed off, dependence must be placed on hard cast 260-gr. slugs from Lyman mould #403169, and sized .406" - .407". If not driven too fast, these will do a job on anything up to and including moose. "

450/400-3¼" B.P.E. - 260 cast lead - 42.0 - Re 7 - Berdan primer

From: Powder Keg, R. Seyfreid, Handloader #230, August 2004

"Q: I am trying to get loading data for the .450-400 3-inch Nitro. I am shooting both cast bullets and 400-grain Woodleigh bullets in Bertram cases. I also need to know about the Dacron filler. Do I need it in the .400?"

A: There are two variations of the .450-.400 x 3-inch cartridge. The "trade" model had a thin (.040-inch) rim and normally used 60 grains of cordite with a 400-grain bullet. Jeffrey used a thick rim and only 55 grains of cordite. Either one likes the 1.19 multiplier of Reloder 15, with a Federal 215 primer as a duplicate to the original full-power loads. That is to say, 1.19 times the 55- or 60-grain cordite charge. Normally, you do not need Dacron in the .400s. However, if you experience any form of hangfire (this will probably be as minute as your thinking you can hear the hammer hit before ignition), add 3 grains of standard polyester pillow stuffing over the powder. This load is compatible with the Woodleigh softpoint bullet. If you use their solids, reduce the powder charge 2 grains.

For cast bullet shooting in the .400s, we discover a wonderful phenomena in cordite double rifles. Against all conventional wisdom, they will usually regulate perfectly with a very reduced load, by simply pretending they were black-powder rifles. Now we turn to the nitro-for-black-powder formula. The 3-inch case was not a black-powder round, but its 3¼-inch older brother was. It normally used 100 to 110 grains of black and 230- to 260-grain bullets. Hodgdon 4198 is the powder of choice. The formula is now 40 percent of the black powder weight.

Load with a standard Large Rifle (not magnum) primer and begin with 42 grains of 4198. The nitro-for-black loads must use Dacron; 10 grains will be correct, over the powder. Add a hard 230- to 260-grain, .41 Magnum pistol bullet and you will have a nice, friendly deer load. Most rifles regulate perfectly, although it is often necessary to use the 200-yard sight leaf to get correct elevation at 100 yards."

Note: In Miniature Black Powder Express Cartridges, Handloader #225, Seyfried states the Dacron must fill the case and not be tamped down on the powder as a wad.

From: Reloading the Nitro Express, R. Seyfreid, Handloader #202, December 1999

"Unlike the earlier black-powder rifles, most nitro rifles will have the service load stamped on the barrel flats as part of the proof marks. This usually specifies a maximum load of cordite and bullet weight. One usually encounters something like "cordite 70-bullet 480 max."

"Slug the bores and make chamber casts before you buy components. Finally be sure you are indeed working with a "full-cordite" rifle. Many unknowing or unscrupulous sellers call every British express rifle a "Nitro Express". If the barrels do not show the cordite charge in the proof marks, they are probably made for black powder."

"The correct powder for the nitros is also surprisingly simple. Most who are serious reloaders for the nitros have distilled the selection to one powder: Alliant Reloder 15. You will see and hear references to other powders; IMR-3031 and some of the very slow ones like 4831 have been used. In my experience IMR-3031 has a shrewish temperament in the big cases, demonstrating rapid pressure rises. The slow powders have blown the sides out of more than one set of fine double barrels. No one has a precise answer to "why?". Because it has happened, I treat the slow powders like the standard medical formula, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." Reply: "Do not do this!"

"Returning to our chosen fuel, RL-15, its use and perfection was invented by none less than Federal Cartridge for their own .470 Nitro cartridges. It is a mild-mannered, delightful powder that re-creates original ballistics, right across the spectrum from .450-400 to .600, using the same conversion formula. That is, multiply the original cordite charge by 1.19 to substitute RL-15. In almost every instance, caliber and rifle, the velocity, with the correct Woodleigh bullet, will be right in the Kynoch window. (It is a good idea to begin two grains below the calculated charge, just to be on the safe side.)"

"The one compromise with RL-15 is that it takes up less space in the cavernous cases than did the original spaghetti-like cordite. To obtain perfectly crisp ignition, one must add a small ball of Dacron (polyester) fiber filler. Most .40- and .45-caliber rounds want four or five grains, while the .470 and .500 use six or seven grains and the .577 and .600 take seven or eight. Loads without the filler can demonstrate minute, but disconcerting, hangfires. Those with fillers are crisp with uncannily uniform velocities."

.450/.400-3 inch - 60 grs. Cordite - 400-gr. bullet - 2125 fps - 71.4 grs. RL-15
.450/400-3¼ inch - 60 grs. Cordite - 400-gr. bullet - 2150 fps - 71.4 grs. RL-15

I don't know where you could find any data for reduced cast loads for the .450/.400 - 3". The closest I could come to the caliber and case capacity was the .40-110 Winchester Express which used a 0.403" bullet and had a case capacity of 8.12cc's. The .450/.400-3 inch has a case capacity somewhere around 7.5cc. I say "around" because The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions has the same dimensions for both the .450/400 Magnum Nitro Express (whatever that is) and the .450/.400 - 3.25" Magnum Nitro Express. Both are listed as having a case capacity of 8.04cc's. It seems most of the difference in length is in the neck, so I made some rough calculations from C.I.P. drawings. Of course, smokeless data for the .40-110 is probably just as hard to find. Old Ideal catalogs might have some data.