looking for some guidance, when I went to metal fab school back in early 70's I learned on manual machines.
and imm really wanting a bigger lather than the south bend 9. there are several 2006 model year HAAS CNC lathes that look to be very nice for little money being auctioned off not too far away. will I need to go back to school to learn how to use a cnc how difficult is it to learn to use this modern stuff?
The big thing you will need to learn is to read g code. Its what the cncs run on and use. You can write the program on a computer but you need to be able to read and edit it. The other is the cad cam programs for drawing writing the programs can get very expensive. I would also talk to an electrician as Im not sure the cncs will run on a rotary or inverters 3 phase power. A couple courses will get you going but the power thing may be a stumbling block.
CNC is same as a manual machine except you are driving the controls with a keypad rather than a dials. Feeds and speeds are generally the same, except you can usually go a bit faster because the encoders are making everything work. You will have to learn "how to drive" using whatever language the machine uses. Haas probably uses G code.
What HAAS CNC lathes are you looking at? If they are TL-1's or TL-2's in reasonable shape jump on them. They can be ran manually or CNC mode issuing straight code or in canned cycles. The only difference in manual mode is you don't have any feel since the movement is electronically controlled.
In my shop I had a TL-1 and a TL-2. It was easy to train manual machinists on them. I also had a VR-4 machining center that was a serious challenge for any non-CNC machinist.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I learned on manual machines and that's all I've owned. Nearly all my jobs are one-offs and no one has convinced me that they can program a project, set it up, and make it faster than I can just do it manually. Obviously, for long runs, CNC wins hands down. But I never do long runs, and I suspect few other gun tinkerers do either.
there are a couple TM-1's and a couple TL-1's
here is one of the machines
https://www.govdeals.com/asset/29747/685
If I was close, I would be bidding on the TL-1. With the Gov auctions the item may/like have some issues. Due to the age the item manager may have allowed it to be scrapped/auctioned verse put back into the system? Or it could have issues? Not sure if civilians can locate who turned it in to inquire about any known issues.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I was thinking even if they get bid up to $5k that leaves a lot of room for repair money with the same used machines from dealers going for about $20k and a new 2024 unit from HAAS $31,695 plus good ole Gov Lee's TN 10% sales tax
A good older manual 14" lathe with 40" bed and readout will go for between 3000-5000. I recently saw a monarch 14" with 60 inch bed readout and some tooling 3 jaw 4 jaw follower and steady rests. asking was 4500. I believe it had dro on it also. It wasa also a D1-6 spindle
Also remember on thing with the bigger machines is moving them it can get expensive. Most machine auctions also now not only charge a buyers premium but a loading fee. If the movers can set in place with the fork truck its not as bad but if they have to get the skates and toe jacks out hold on.
I've been thinking same thing I know how to use a good ole manual lathe. new computerized stuff, not at all. if I were younger or had a child or employees that would work in metal fab it would be different story. as far a moving machines like that I would go to sunbelt and rent a pair of roll-a-lifts. together with a winch on trailer or a rental truck with lift gate moving heavy machines becomes much easier.
Why would a gunsmith EVER need a CNC lathe or one that can't be hauled in a pickup? We're not making artillery.
In my home shop I personally avoid CNC due to electronic repair costs. Before I retired I had two CNC's with electronic issued. One was bad at about $4,600 for the repair. The other was over 12K. That being said if I ever find a clean serviceable TL-1 or TL-2 for under 15K it will be mine. If I do that I would start doing some custom machine to justify the cost. For simple gunsmithing manual would be my recommendation is manual. Both the TL and TM are very easy to learn and operate without knowing G-code.Originally Posted by farmbif
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Correct!! A CNC lathe is a PRODUCTION machine, for making many, many identical parts in a short period of time. It will do exactly what you program it to do, and if you made a mistake in that programming, well, that could be a very costly mistake. For making just one or two occasional parts, a manual engine lathe is still the best.
If I were to have a CNC machine, it would be a mill, not a lathe.
For the gunsmiths that do a lot of threading muzzles or product produces for volume sales they are the cats meow.
General gunsmiths tend not to be very good machinists. Most are serviced well by light duty machines. If they specialize in accuracy-based rifles not so much.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-06-2024 at 02:13 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
The Haas TL and TM machines are designed for toolrooms, one offs and limited run production. The older TL's that still have the manual operation feature outclass manual machines in the same size class. The only reason I don't own one is possible eletronic repair cost. I can do the mechanical side of machine repair. Electronics I have to hire.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
���� Like! Like! Like! ����
Rights, and Privileges, are not synonymous. We have the Right to Bear Arms. As soon as the Government mandates firearm registration, and permiting, then that Right becomes a Privilege, and may be taken away at our Master's discretion.
The OP did state he was looking at a HAAS TL-1. How many people commenting have owned, operated or even know that capabilities of a HAAS TL-1?
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I do prototype machining with access to conversational CNC and manual machines. Almost any milling project I will default to our conversational bed mills with a Bridgeport style head. They are a nice blend of CNC and manual. I can program them in full 3 axis, even doing 3D profiling using CAM software or I can run them in 2 axis to position the machine for drilling and use the same program to spot, drill, countersink, tap, ream, and/or bore. The only time I use the Bridgeport is for second operations while the CNC machine is running or when all the CNC's are in use.
We have one mill with a 10K rpm spindle, flood coolant, and an 8 tool, tool changer. It is by far the fastest on parts using small tooling or that can be programmed with the 5 tools that live in the machine with the addition of a few drills.
With lathe work I use the manual lathes for simple smaller parts or parts too big to fit in our CNC lathe. Once you add in tapers, radii, or a bunch of material removal it usually goes straight to the conversational CNC lathe. Interestingly threading is so easy on our Hardinge knockoffs that I will usually cut them manually unless it is already going into the CNC. If I had a dozen more toolholders for our CNC lathe, so I could keep more tools set up, I would probably use the CNC almost exclusively. Having all your offsets preset makes CNC far more efficient.
quando omni flunkus moritati
Until someone actually runs this type of conversational CNC machine its hard to comprehend how efficient these types of machines are for one offs. The only reason I don't have any in my home shop is possible electronic repair costs.
I do have a Hardinge HLV-H with a taper attachment and a HOLDRIDGE 3D Radius Tool Set. For mills I have two Series 1 variable speed Bridgeport. One has a cherrying head on the back and the other has the shaper/slotter head. I also have a 15" Bridgeport rotary table, 12" Advance cross slide rotary table, right angle heads and Vostro rotary head for the Bridgeport. This gives me most of the capability of a conversational CNC Bridgeport. For complex shapes I can do most of them but its way slower than if I had a conversational CNC Bridgeport.
With my current setup I can't thread mill. I miss that capability.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-06-2024 at 03:57 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote