Mould for 38-40?

[fourarmed]

A friend has a #2 rolling block in 38-40, and wants to shoot it without breaking the bank. I found brass and dies, and I'm looking at Lee moulds. All I can see that's reasonably close are the two 175 grainers intended for 10mm/40sw. Does anybody have any experience with either of these in the 38-40?

[Bigslug]

Kinda, sorta.

I assisted with a startup load for an 1873 Winchester using the NOE 403-181-WFN while the "proper" mold was being made, so same basic concept. Worked fine. You have no worries about bullet setback in a single shot, so no concerns about lack of crimp groove.

I like the look of the longer body on that Lee tumble-luber as a means for seating farther out of the case - - depending of course on where the throat starts. The forward TL grooves could also take a crimp if you want one. If the throat is short, the normal lube groove one should do ya.

[fourarmed]

Thanks Bigslug! What powders? Most manuals seem to think that it's just a revolver cartridge.

[gwpercle]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition only has 38-40 data in the Handgun section but at least that is a place to start .
There is data for a 175 grain boolit - Lyman #401043 round-flat , plain base .
While not the Lee design it is at least the same weight .

If you have a set of 40 S&W dies , you can use the crimp die to apply a taper crimp if the Lee boolit doesn't have a crimp groove / lube groove in the right place .

I do this with a 9mm taper crimp die when loading smooth sided cast boolits , intended for the 9mm Luger (Lee 356-120-TC ) , in 38 Special & 357 Magnum .
The taper crimp will hold the boolits securely just like in a semi-auto round .

A two cavity Lee mould and a 40 S&W crimp die might be Just The Ticket !
Gary

[Kai]

Lyman 401043 is a 175fp bullet that works perfectly in the 38wcf

[Bigslug]

Thanks Bigslug! What powders? Most manuals seem to think that it's just a revolver cartridge.

As I recall, it was an older rifle and the decision was to run the Holy Black. . .or maybe Triple 7 to about 1400 fps as I recall.

Expanded real nice in milk jugs when cast of 20-1. Fuzzy on the memory, but I think it penetrated four. . .:

[fourarmed]

I slugged it yesterday and it's pretty tight: .398 to .399. Doesn't look like a lot of throat, but it's hard to tell without a boolit in hand. I guess the cheap route is the tumble lube mould with a Lee sizer...probably the .401. Still getting crud and traces of surface rust out of it. It hung on his wall for years.

[Bigslug]

A lot of the "throats" on period barrels appear to have been formed by following up on the chambering with a chamfer reamer that barely breaks the corner of the fresh-cut lands at a 45-degree angle.

You could top a charge with cream of wheat and fire that vertically for a fire-formed case, then do a pound-cast of the chamber for your throat spec. Might be overkill for this project, but it might help choose the bullet.

[fredj338]

The Lyman 401043 is about perfect. I used it for a few years in a Henry, then later in my 40 pistols.

[pworley1]

The lyman 401043 work best in my 38 40's

[Joby]

My son just picked up a rifle length 1892 in 38-40. I loaded the lee tumble lube 175 grain over various amounts of Alliant 2400 with good results out to 50 yards. Didn’t shoot it farther yet. The overall length crimped in the top lube groove worked fine for the Winchester feeding . Meanwhile we obtained an Ideal 40143 SC mold to use as well. Have to cast some soon. There is much spicier load data for rifles in an older Ideal manual I have. Probably shorten case life and wouldn’t be healthy to find its way into a pistol though. I can send images if desired. Enjoy your new endeavor. JS

[fourarmed]

Thanks guys. I found an old Ideal manual with rifle data. They like IMR-4227. Looks like unless a miracle occurs, the Lee tumbler is the way we will have to go.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You might want to look for a mold that casts a little larger than 401
I have a real old H&G #6 mold that was designed for 38-40 (so I'm told) and casts a RF bullet weighing 180gr and measures .404"

[Kai]

Thanks guys. I found an old Ideal manual with rifle data. They like IMR-4227. Looks like unless a miracle occurs, the Lee tumbler is the way we will have to go.

There are two 401043 molds on ebay now. Not cheap though.

[fourarmed]

I'm getting some decent groups with the Lee TL bullet. I'm casting it of 20:1 and shooting it unsized. The load is 18 grains of IMR-4227 with a cci 350 primer. I went to the magnum primer because I was getting a lot of unburned powder in the barrel. It didn't really help. I'm guessing that the pressure is too low, but I really don't want it much higher in an old rifle that isn't mine anyway.

I'm thinking of several options: rifle primer, harder alloy, faster powder. Any ideas?

[gwpercle]

I'm getting some decent groups with the Lee TL bullet. I'm casting it of 20:1 and shooting it unsized. The load is 18 grains of IMR-4227 with a cci 350 primer. I went to the magnum primer because I was getting a lot of unburned powder in the barrel. It didn't really help. I'm guessing that the pressure is too low, but I really don't want it much higher in an old rifle that isn't mine anyway.

I'm thinking of several options: rifle primer, harder alloy, faster powder. Any ideas?

Faster Powder...
Unique , 5744 , True Blue , Accurate #2 , Red Dot , Titegroup .

Unique would be my first choice... but these days you have to use whatever powder you can get / have on hand !
Gary

[TRAPDOOR 4570]

A few years ago I was experimenting with a ’92 rifle in 38-40. Bore is not in good shape.
Used NOE 198 gc, Lyman 40143, Lee 175 standard style in 6 cavity, Berry plated & Armscor or Parvi FMJ.
Sized .401, Lube Tamarack 50/50.
Powers 2400, bullseye, 4227, Red Dot, Unique, Trail boss, black & 5744.
All were fired from the bench, rifle receiver resting on the pad & fired at 100 yards. I was only shooting for accuracy. A lot of the patterns were deer chest size.
Firing for group size the Lee was on top followed by the NOE gc. The Lyman 40143 was far behind.
The powders that did best were 5.6g Red Dot, followed by 8g Unique. These were able to keep all rounds in the black at 100yd. I don’t know how the results would be out of a good bore.
I would definitely recommend the Lee 175 with 1 lube groove and the NOE 198 gc.
--------------------------
Forgot the alloy was as hard as Linotype.

[fourarmed]

Yesterday I shot some with 7/Unique and 7.5/4756. They grouped as well at 25 yards as the 4227 loads. Recoil was a little lighter, so they may not hold up as well at distance, but it was too windy to even try longer range.

The only difference I noted using rifle primers in the 4227 load was that they had to be hit two or three times to fire.