AMP Annealing - Mark II Annealer

[irish-maniac]

Does anyone have experience with the Mark II Annealer made by AMP Annealing? I would love to hear about how it performs. Thanks.

[JimB..]

Works great. I sort a sample of brass by weight then sacrifice a couple heavy cases, a couple light cases and a couple middle cases for analysis. Pick a good setting based on that and then crank through the batch.

But, it is an expensive machine, and if you aren’t yet convinced of the benefits of annealing for your uses, then maybe start with a torch and upgrade later.

[wilecoyote]

a comparative evaluation between the few various brands would be interesting, at least, if not an useful sticky thread, because AMP is not the only annealing machine on the market, but it is probably the most expensive, and even more xpensive once imported here_
(recently I learned that here we have an Italian manufacturing company, but also quite expensive , considered that it's a home product...)_

[JimB..]

a comparative evaluation between the few various brands would be interesting, at least, if not an useful sticky thread, because AMP is not the only annealing machine on the market, but it is probably the most expensive, and even more xpensive once imported here_
(recently I learned that here we have an Italian manufacturing company, but also quite expensive , considered that it's a home product...)_

What’s the Italian product?

I’ve thought about comparing the Giraud and the Amp, I own both, to some of the basic hand techniques, but haven’t done so because I have no scientific way to determine if one is better than the other. I’ve considered things like using a gauge to measure the force required to pull bullets, the number of firings before brass failure, and even consistency at say 100 yards from a rest. It’s all a lot of work that I won’t have time for until I retire…and maybe not then.

[irish-maniac]

Thanks for the information. I was not even aware of an Italian manufacturer. I have a bench source, but I have found my annealing to be inconsistent. Every time I use it I need to make adjustments to the two torch heads (which are also problematic and low quality) and then adjustments to the automated timing. Ultimately, it gets the job done, but sometimes I have cases over-annealed in an effort to find that sweet spot. The programmed annealer seems like it would remove a lot of variables and maybe give me a more consistent outcome.

[TreeKiller]

Just got one. Did 1200 223 and 700 308. we did not sort the cases by head stamp. some of the 223 did not look the same as far as the annealing color at the neck due to the brass thickness. All will be good for plinking ammo. It took about 2 sec.per case for the 223 kind of slow doing that many but we got good results On the 308 cases we did a LC case for the settings Win cases were thinner and at that setting they melted at the end and were destroyed. If we had sacrifice a Win case to get the correct setting they would of annealed fine. Bought it on 1/23 and had it on 1/25 shipped from Las Vegas NV. The collects for different calibers are $20.00 each. When i ordered mine the were 200.00 off. No tax to CA.

[wilecoyote]

What’s the Italian product?...

JimB,, I can't say how much it is really Italian, that is, whether imported and marketed as such, or made up of imported parts, or what else_ anyway this is the link:

https://shooting-tech.com/en/inducti...redirect=en_US

comments welcome, o.c.

[irish-maniac]

TreeKiller, do you need to have programmed settings for every headstamp? Does Aztec analyze for each? Thanks for the info.

[JimB..]

I sort a by headstamp and weight then analyze to get a program for that headstamp.

[irish-maniac]

The Italian model referenced, "Vulcano", seems to have a limited case holder selection at about $40 each. Does AMP use standard case holders?

[irish-maniac]

JimB, good to know. Thank you for that information.

[JimB..]

JimB,, I can't say how much it is really Italian, that is, whether imported and marketed as such, or made up of imported parts, or what else_ anyway this is the link:

https://shooting-tech.com/en/inducti...redirect=en_US

comments welcome, o.c.

That’s interesting. Where the AMP controls the field and timing, the Vulcano requires (allows if it’s a feature) setting them manually. While it’s probably very consistent, it seems expensive for an induction coil, current knob and timer knob. With no software component I’d think it could be copied by DIY for less than half the retail price.

[JimB..]

The Italian model referenced, "Vulcano", seems to have a limited case holder selection at about $40 each. Does AMP use standard case holders?

No. Both machines require case holders for each caliber because the induction coils are fixed in place. The same shell holder could hold 45acp and 3006, but it wouldn’t get the case neck in the correct position relative to the coil.

[wilecoyote]

That’s interesting. Where the AMP controls the field and timing, the Vulcano requires (allows if it’s a feature) setting them manually. While it’s probably very consistent, it seems expensive for an induction coil, current knob and timer knob. With no software component I’d think it could be copied by DIY for less than half the retail price.

I know little about it, but there is a pro and a con.
_manual setting seems more laborious, but more user friendly imho and less delicate than a dedicated software.
_both Vulcano and AMP require the sacrifice of some donor cases for the setup.
_dedicated shell holders can become a problem for obsolete or rare cases, as well as the usual additional expense_
_I don't know what material the SH are made of: ceramic, metal, or whatever, but if they can't be homemade custom built on the lathe, it's a limitation anyway_

another one:
https://quick-anneal.com/
...but not cheap_

...and again I ask myself if this DIY video below worth a try
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLRgDZeYQ-M&t=7s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkqN4iA0NjM

(I think twice before tossing this $200 try, go figure $1000 and up...
I add that, aside the money, anyway the usual steps of DIY in electronics and electrical engineering are: identifying the necessary components, finding them knowing where and what to ask for, assembling them correctly: three things well beyond the limits of my expertise)

[irish-maniac]

DIY was eye opening... Interesting.

[irish-maniac]

Has anyone tried the "Quick Anneal"? It looks like it only recently started getting imported to USA.

[wilecoyote]

I've contacted the UK/EU importer before xmas,
https://mroutdoors.co.uk/
but today I can't see the quick-anneal no more in their link...

[JimB..]

Sorry, I misspoke about the shellholders. The custom bit on the AMP is a guide for the case. It screws into the top of the machine and serves to center the case and position it at the right height relative to the coil. It is aluminum. I wish they’d designed it to fit into a tapered port rather than threaded, but either way it’d be easy to make on a lathe.

After analyzing a case the AMP machine gives you a code to use for annealing the case (it destroys the case in the process). I don’t know what the code means exactly, but as the numbers go up the case gets more energy, so of you want to adj manually I suppose you can. I never have.

The Quick-anneal is interesting. I don’t know how they adjust energy to the case, perhaps it’s done with temp paint. I like the concept of annealing the thinner neck and the thicker case shoulder differently to get the best result for each, but not sure that I believe they are actually doing that. All the core does is heat the case, and if it puts enough energy into the shoulder to anneal it, that heat is going to migrate to the case neck. Still works great I’m sure, but maybe not much different than the Vulcano.

Agree on the DIY. If you know enough to do it, I’m sure it’s not hard, but if not it’s going to be a chore. I bought because I didn’t think I’d enjoy building.

[wilecoyote]

...unfortunately I only spoke by phone with one AMP owner only.
I have no direct talk with other owners of other machines.
below, if you are or can become interested, are the references for purchasing DIY components_ just in case...
TIMER:
https://www.amazon.it/iHaospace-Prog...9137faf6425300
HEATHER:
https://www.amazon.com/Solary-Magnet.../dp/B0851C6Q22
the TRANSFORMER for the timer should be easy to find,
while an electrical engineer friend with time and will to help remains the main problem ...

my final thought: unlike costly dedicated machines, if everything goes wrong the heater (and there are cheaper ones on the web) can be used for other purposes, as loosing stubborn bolts, etc. _

[BD]

I would be interested in any test results that compare one of these annealing machines to the basic hand method I've been using for the last 20 years or so, (two torches facing each other in a wooden frame over a water bucket, In a dark room hold the cases by the base in my bare hand, drop them before they get hot enough to burn my hand). From what I've read about most of these machines I can anneal 100 brass more quickly than most folks can get the machine set up to do a batch. I have never tried to measure my neck tension as I lightly crimp most loads. But I am on my second AR match barrel using BHM cases that AnthonyB sent me years ago. Maybe 10 -15 max Varget loadings? I anneal every third loading, and I don't think I've lost 5 cases to split necks. New barrel shoots 1/4moa, (so did the first one, I replaced it at 4,000 rounds when it got over 1/2moa at 100). Being a yankee at heart, I'm having a hard time convincing myself I need of one of these expensive machines. So convince me.