Honing cylinder throats vs. reaming cylinder throats

[georgerkahn]

The new models (3 digit prefix serial number, medium frame) that I have seen had an overall much better fitment, the barrels seem to be pretty much free of thread choke for the most part, and the cylinders are much more consistent in throat diameters, although they are still just a tad bit small for optimal cast boolit use, they are made better than the older 2 digit prefix guns. The Lipsey's limited edition guns are the pick of the litter.

DougGuy -- you have me a tad confused? You wrote, "The Lipsey's limited edition guns are the pick of the litter". I very recently posted you my
Ruger Blackhawk Lipsey Exclusive 5 ½” Barrel .45LC/.45ACP Bearcat s/n 520-xxxxx Model 5241, which (THANK YOU!!!!!) you did an awesome and then some honing -- but you indicated my cost was at upper end due to the cylinders being out of whack? (Perhaps mine was a "late Friday afternoon" product?) Not by any means a "biggee" -- as soon as some funds free up for me I'm still planning on sending another two cylinders to you for your magic -- but if the "Lipsey Limited edition..." are the pick of the litter... then how bad are the other models?
geo

[nicholst55]

The new models (3 digit prefix serial number, medium frame) that I have seen had an overall much better fitment, the barrels seem to be pretty much free of thread choke for the most part, and the cylinders are much more consistent in throat diameters, although they are still just a tad bit small for optimal cast boolit use, they are made better than the older 2 digit prefix guns. The Lipsey's limited edition guns are the pick of the litter.

I have a .45 Flattop convertible that has a significant thread choke (and also had grossly undersize and varying diameter throats, but I had them reamed). I bought it used, but I think that it's a Lipsey's gun. IMHO, Ruger stainless barrels are not practical to firelap, due to their hardness. Short of refitting (or replacing) the barrel, my understanding is that Taylor Throating is the best solution. Do you offer this service?

[DougGuy]

I have a .45 Flattop convertible that has a significant thread choke (and also had grossly undersize and varying diameter throats, but I had them reamed). I bought it used, but I think that it's a Lipsey's gun. IMHO, Ruger stainless barrels are not practical to firelap, due to their hardness. Short of refitting (or replacing) the barrel, my understanding is that Taylor Throating is the best solution. Do you offer this service?

I do have a taylor throat reamer in 45 caliber but I can't receive a complete firearm, only components.

[DougGuy]

DougGuy -- you have me a tad confused? You wrote, "The Lipsey's limited edition guns are the pick of the litter". I very recently posted you my
Ruger Blackhawk Lipsey Exclusive 5 ½” Barrel .45LC/.45ACP Bearcat s/n 520-xxxxx Model 5241, which (THANK YOU!!!!!) you did an awesome and then some honing -- but you indicated my cost was at upper end due to the cylinders being out of whack? (Perhaps mine was a "late Friday afternoon" product?) Not by any means a "biggee" -- as soon as some funds free up for me I'm still planning on sending another two cylinders to you for your magic -- but if the "Lipsey Limited edition..." are the pick of the litter... then how bad are the other models?
geo

Yours had really tight throats, both smaller than .451" one at .450" so the few Lipsey's that I have had in the shop came with .452" throats, I have honed a few dozen Lipsey's cylinders, I was mainly emphasizing the fit and finish overall, not specifically the cylinder throats.

I own one Lipsey's limited edition 45/45 flattop blackhawk convertible and one 45 vaquero. They all had throats honed and hammer pads reduced, and Wolff 30oz. trigger return springs added, neither has the slightest hint of thread choke. A couple more I have seen in person had zero detectable choke.

Truth be told, they were SO good, the medium frame guns are the best Ruger has turned out to date IMHO! I was jealous, I *had* to have a couple for myself. Mine are great shooters, the cylinders will even interchange between them!

This is not a "Praise Ruger" thread but since you asked georgerkahn, here's the lowdown..

[nicholst55]

I do have a taylor throat reamer in 45 caliber but I can't receive a complete firearm, only components.

Roger that.

[castmiester]

Doug

Do you have spare Redhawk cylinders to sell ?

[DougGuy]

Doug

Do you have spare Redhawk cylinders to sell ?

Where do you come up with these off the wall questions? I can't believe you wasted your time typing this and can't believe I wasted the time to respond. NO I do not have a "spare" RH cylinder hanging around like on my desktop serving as a pencil holder? You must have typed this question in a dream.

[castmiester]

Maybe to you it was, but who knows what you have, figured I'd ask, or you can guide me to a good used one to fit. But I heard there's fitting to my gun, but you did mention, in your previous post, unless it is just with the model you posted, that they are interchangeable. Remember......... I'm a newb.

[DougGuy]

Maybe to you it was, but who knows what you have, figured I'd ask, or you can guide me to a good used one to fit. But I heard there's fitting to my gun, but you did mention, in your previous post, unless it is just with the model you posted, that they are interchangeable. Remember......... I'm a newb.

My throats are .432~5. If l insert the gauge most of the way in the throat/chamber l get a snugger gauging.

The Ruger single action cylinders are interchangeable from one model to another model of the same frames. That does NOT assume they will fit and be usable. Sometimes you buy a used cylinder off ebay and it drops in with .080" or more end shake. Ridiculously wide barrel/cylinder gaps. Sometimes they won't even go in the frame. It's anybody's guess whether they will work. MY medium framed guns could interchange the cylinders with exact fit, not even .001" difference between the flattop and my vaquero. Luck yes. Does it happen often? It could.

A Redhawk, sp101, gp100, all of those double action revolves are meticulously fitted one gun at a time. you have end shake, barrel/cylinder gap, timing, there is a bunch of stuff involved in replacing a double action cylinder. Ruger does not sell these parts. I have never even SEEN a redhawk cylinder listed for sale. EVER.

Now that you have hijacked my thread with a totally unrelated subject matter, you are welcome to butt out and go start your own thread about redhawks or whatever. You have ZERO forum etiquette. Learn some.

[castmiester]

I’d pm you but you ain’t answering me.. LOL

[charlie b]

i could have at least asked what caliber the gun?

lol hk vp9

[alfadan]

David Richards on youtube says his Sunnen hone is the most accurate machine in his shop.

[Forrest r]

I have never even SEEN a redhawk cylinder listed for sale. EVER.

You have ZERO forum etiquette. Learn some.

Interesting!!!
There not that hard to find if you know how to look and what to look for. Heck, ebay has them for sale all the time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28505724375...Bk9SR7CthOmtYw

And yes the lowly numrich arms has them most of the time also.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1818180
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/559880

[53slf]

I just have to say Doug did a great job on my S&W 63 cylinder. He turned a gun I had stopped shooting because cases would not extract after a few cylinders full to one that now is joy to shoot for hundreds of rounds! Cases come out smoothly regardless of brand.
Luckily my other revolvers are fine the way they came even with cast.

[Bigslug]

Doug, thanks for the explanation of the process. It took a couple of YouTube vids covering the larger Sunnen machines for me to get the gist of what's happening, but I eventually got there.

Truly a better way to do it regardless of the material you're working on. . .but the notion of different hardness levels within the same 2" diameter cylinder (a.) makes the brain ache, and (b.) pretty much closes the deal. I've had a few Ruger chambers that weren't quite there that I selectively shot fire-lapping rounds through while removing frame/barrel crush to equalize with the rest, but I like the sound of your way better.

Would you say that Ruger has recently been taking steps to generally improve this stuff? I recently had an overpressure load blow out one of the cylinder stop notches on my 1990's era GP-100, and I sent it in with a note that I shoot cast where these measurements matter, and I got it back with a new cylinder on which the throats pinned uniformly. Whether that more to do with my request or how they do things currently, you'd be in a better position to say, but by your description of the Lipsey's guns, they certainly can when they want to.

[DougGuy]

Doug, thanks for the explanation of the process. It took a couple of YouTube vids covering the larger Sunnen machines for me to get the gist of what's happening, but I eventually got there.

Truly a better way to do it regardless of the material you're working on. . .but the notion of different hardness levels within the same 2" diameter cylinder (a.) makes the brain ache, and (b.) pretty much closes the deal. I've had a few Ruger chambers that weren't quite there that I selectively shot fire-lapping rounds through while removing frame/barrel crush to equalize with the rest, but I like the sound of your way better.

Would you say that Ruger has recently been taking steps to generally improve this stuff?

I don't know if Ruger is changing the metallurgy in the cylinder rods, they come in on rail cars from what I am told. I have no clue how to explain the variances in the hardness of the steel in those rods, but I have ran into this time and time again when I was reaming cylinders. Even when you do get those harder throats reamed, if you mic them with a dial bore gage or snap gage or even a pin gage, you will find that throats that were easier, more normal to ream are larger than the ones that were harder to ream. I think this variance in temper continued on into the medium frame 3 digit prefix guns.

Afaik, Ruger cylinders are the only ones that have these wide swings in the temper. No other brand of revolver that I have reamed or honed, has been inconsistent from one side to the other side of the same cylinder. Their cylinders are pretty much overbuilt in that it takes a LOT to blow one up. Ruger paid for a study years ago with a private firm to conduct destructive analysis of their guns and if I recall correctly they found that it took at least 60,000 psi to destroy a 45 Colt blackhawk.

Two instances come to mind, one I got a msg from a member here who had bought a reamer from Brownell's and was intending on reaming his 45 Colt cylinder. He reamed 3 throats and then ran into the exact scenario I described numerous times in bunches of my posts, this thread included, he couldn't get the reamer to cut the rest of the throats, and he got scared of forcing it, he contacted me and sent his cylinder and the reamer to me to finish the job. I used his reamer and turned it with vise grips to ream the rest of the throats and sent the cylinder back. I didn't have pin gages in those days, and it never occurred to me that those three throats might be smaller in diameter than the others. I was using ACRO laps then, and I lapped those throats to match.

I mean, you would think that if a .4525" reamer went through the throat and reamed it, that it would be .4525" right? Doesn't work that way. Reamers can and will crush depending on how much resistance the steel puts against the cutting flutes, and the same reamer will cut different sized holes in stainless, hard steel cylinders, softer steel cylinders, they will all be varying diameters. I had one cylinder that the reamer got severely stuck in, and I had no choice but to beat it through with a big nylon hammer. The reamer came through the ordeal okay, sent it to be sharpened later, but the throat that I just FORCED a .4525" reamer through, would NOT allow a .452" pin gage to go into the hole. Go figure. Explain that one.

The other instance of inconsistent temper that sticks out in my memory was with one cylinder that I honed all the throats, and there was one throat that I had to go back through with the 400 grit CBN stone followed with a 400 grit silicon carbide stone, and finish with a 500 grit silicon carbide stone. I had to repeat this process 3 times in total to bring that one throat to match the drag on the pin gage that the other throats had. There is no way possible that a reamer would have cut this throat to match the other 5. Just a weird piece of steel in this one cylinder.

Anybody else would have sent that cylinder back to the customer with 5 good throats and 1 that could not be reamed to match the rest. Stories like this one are why I invested in the Sunnen hone. It does what nothing else can do, despite changes in the hardness of the steel in the cylinder.

[jrayborn]

Having reamed some cylinders myself, I'd love my own Sunnen Hone. Kind of overkill for this kind of work, but certainly makes it easy if you do it for a living.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I like overkill. It works!