My homemade Golden powder!

[Sandro_ventania]

This manganese dioxide is available from Amazon, 99% pure regants grade/fine pwder for $32.99/ 1 lb bottle. What is the percentage of the mix in the GP?

It would be used instead of iron oxide. Use 5% of the total... future tests will be able to tell if you need less or more, but 5% is good to start with. Please, if you test, let us know the result.

[Sandro_ventania]

Bruce,

This is what raised the red flag:

"The powder is compacted hard and felt like a solid compressed flour."

Being ignorant about this type of propellent and a "Safety Nazi", I erred on the side of caution.

I do not even shoot BP so know nothing about how a compressed charge should look. With smokeless, the powder is still a powder and not compacted into a hard/solid mass.

I am following this thread as I find stuff like this interesting. I have no need to make a propellent, but it would be valuable skill if/when things go south. A bit like remanufacturing primers. Not worth my time if I can buy what I need. But what if that changes?

Friend DVerna, be very careful, it's never wrong!! We are all experimenters and as my grandmother used to say..."caution and chicken broth never hurt anyone!". And regarding the need to do GP or BP, I believe that few here have this need... Most do it because they like knowing that they are capable of doing it! He does it because he likes to try something different from what is on the store shelf. The fun is good, join in!

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Has anyone tried extruding it into stick powder with something like this?

Attachment 323362

When I make my rice starch screened powder it's pretty hard to thumb it through a regular screen. Something like this would help a lot.

[perotter]

Friend DVerna, be very careful, it's never wrong!! We are all experimenters and as my grandmother used to say..."caution and chicken broth never hurt anyone!". And regarding the need to do GP or BP, I believe that few here have this need... Most do it because they like knowing that they are capable of doing it! He does it because he likes to try something different from what is on the store shelf. The fun is good, join in!

Yup. That's how it's been for me. Done it for over 50 years just so that I know I'll have something available to use to shoot.

Also learn how to do it if/when an emergency happens and run the risk of throwing caution to the wind.

[Abert Rim]

Quite an interesting thread, gentlemen. Thank you for all your posts.

[barrabruce]

Well I did get plumes of smoke and it was very difficult to see any signs of the patch in flight.

Dry wrapped and lubeless seemed to be a bummer. Even with wiping between shots.
There was a bit of tipping also.

Velocity unknown, some wild vertical spreads and group as a whole about 4" with lots of outliners.

Still an outcome thou!

Think I’ll try another batch and see, but fill the holes of the bore with lube before I shoot again and lube the bullets.

I wonder if it will bump bullets up and try patching to bore to see if that works.

Anyway all fun.
Did I say I had heaps of smoke and the wind changed to 12 o clock and I was engulfed by it.

Ha.
I don’t want to make black powder as I would have to have more equipment and stuff.
But stove top powder seems fine.
Maybe I will get some iron oxide and make some pink.

I’m wondering about the starch powder now and how that performs.

[barrabruce]

I just remembered today.
I had a couple of rounds that,through the white plume of smoke was a "whizzer" or two.
I believe they could have been bigger and harder golden powder chunks that maybe were on the top of the charge and left a thin trail of white smoke rotating and spiraling off at a tangent.
I suppose one could load for the effect after all the other is sorted out.
Cheers

[Nobade]

I have seen a lot of that as well, it probably doesn't help your ballistics but does provide a nice visual effect.

[Sandro_ventania]

I just remembered today.
I had a couple of rounds that,through the white plume of smoke was a "whizzer" or two.
I believe they could have been bigger and harder golden powder chunks that maybe were on the top of the charge and left a thin trail of white smoke rotating and spiraling off at a tangent.
I suppose one could load for the effect after all the other is sorted out.
Cheers

I believe using a 4F or 5F grit is the best choice. especially if you are using a pistol.

[deces]

Has anyone come across a pucking system with turnkey prices?

[Nobade]

I tried to press this stuff into pucks and was not impressed. It does not behave like black powder. As mentioned, you could possibly add a binder but I'm happy with just running it through my grain grinder to granulate it.

[Sandro_ventania]

I tried to press this stuff into pucks and was not impressed. It does not behave like black powder. As mentioned, you could possibly add a binder but I'm happy with just running it through my grain grinder to granulate it.

When the GP hardens, I think it stays in its most compacted form, pressing I don't think it will increase the density. I'm still going to try making pellets (with a hole or more in the middle) maybe for those who are going to load cartridges this would be the best way. For a muzzleloader, powder is good and uncomplicated.

[MUSTANG]

Well I did my 1st cooking attempt on the Golden Powder - Looks more like Outhouse Residue Powder; it was pretty smelly too.

Attachment 322889

It never turned "Golden". It cooked like a bad batch of Brownies. Seemed to Immediately go to Brown then Black. Gummy and would not come off the Spatula.

After it cooled; I managed to scrape much of it off bottom of the old Stainless Steel fry pan I cooked it in using a 4 inch putty knife. Did same with the Spatula. Cleaning up the pan may be a challenge - starting with filling the pan with water and letting the spatula and pan sit overnight. I am going to let the residue I scraped out sit a few days then crush and screen through a Kitchen Strainer to get smaller particles. I have Low Expectations on this.

Above was from my Post #118 of this thread. (Click on the Attachment in the above box for the picture of the mix cooked in the pan. I scraped all of the mix out of the pan; and then I crushed this mixture and screened it through a large mesh Kitchen Strainer after it set for a couple of days (Not sure of the mesh size - but perhaps twice the opening size of a 20 Mesh Screen).

I loaded five .308 Winchester rounds with 33 Grains of this "Golden Powder". Used CCI #34 Large Rifle Primers, and a NOE 311041 powder coated boolit sized to .310 and an aluminum 0.014" thick gas check. Rifle was a Remington 700 Heavy Barrel with a Scope set at 10X. Shot them at the range today with following results:

(a) Each shot there was a white vapor/smoke cloud that obscured the target as seen through the scope for 3 to 5 seconds after the shot.
(b) Visually Inspected barrel after each shot, there were 4 to 5 black granules in the barrel each time.
(c) Slight carbon on neck of 4 of 5 cases; one had heavy carbon on the neck.
(d) Shot all 5 rounds while using LabRadar Chronograph - But only one registered on the Chronograph. It showed a velocity of 2541 feet per second. Velocity was higher than I anticipated. Given lack of rounds registering; I'll chronograph these again downstream.
(e) recoil and "feel" of each shot was relatively same; so it seemed to be consistent.
(f) and finally; the 100 Yard Group was 4 inches. The bull is a 1 and 1/4 spot paster. See group below:



The 311041 has not performed well in this Rifle compared to other boolits. I was more interested in seeing how the Golden Powder (despite being "Burned") performed. The 311041's were all leftovers in a container on the reloading bench I wanted to use up.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Above was from my Post #118 of this thread. (Click on the Attachment in the above box for the picture of the mix cooked in the pan. I scraped all of the mix out of the pan; and then I crushed this mixture and screened it through a large mesh Kitchen Strainer after it set for a couple of days (Not sure of the mesh size - but perhaps twice the opening size of a 20 Mesh Screen).

I loaded five .308 Winchester rounds with 33 Grains of this "Golden Powder". Used CCI #34 Large Rifle Primers, and a NOE 311041 powder coated boolit sized to .310 and an aluminum 0.014" thick gas check. Rifle was a Remington 700 Heavy Barrel with a Scope set at 10X. Shot them at the range today with following results:

(a) Each shot there was a white vapor/smoke cloud that obscured the target as seen through the scope for 3 to 5 seconds after the shot.
(b) Visually Inspected barrel after each shot, there were 4 to 5 black granules in the barrel each time.
(c) Slight carbon on neck of 4 of 5 cases; one had heavy carbon on the neck.
(d) Shot all 5 rounds while using LabRadar Chronograph - But only one registered on the Chronograph. It showed a velocity of 2541 feet per second. Velocity was higher than I anticipated. Given lack of rounds registering; I'll chronograph these again downstream.
(e) recoil and "feel" of each shot was relatively same; so it seemed to be consistent.
(f) and finally; the 100 Yard Group was 4 inches. The bull is a 1 and 1/4 spot paster. See group below:

The 311041 has not performed well in this Rifle compared to other boolits. I was more interested in seeing how the Golden Powder (despite being "Burned") performed. The 311041's were all leftovers in a container on the reloading bench I wanted to use up.

Wow, that's some really good performance! Especially that velocity. I highly doubt you could get that with real BP.

[barrabruce]

Mustang
Should I recook my powder more then I wonder.
You have at least obtained military accuracy std.

[Sandro_ventania]

Above was from my Post #118 of this thread. (Click on the Attachment in the above box for the picture of the mix cooked in the pan. I scraped all of the mix out of the pan; and then I crushed this mixture and screened it through a large mesh Kitchen Strainer after it set for a couple of days (Not sure of the mesh size - but perhaps twice the opening size of a 20 Mesh Screen).

I loaded five .308 Winchester rounds with 33 Grains of this "Golden Powder". Used CCI #34 Large Rifle Primers, and a NOE 311041 powder coated boolit sized to .310 and an aluminum 0.014" thick gas check. Rifle was a Remington 700 Heavy Barrel with a Scope set at 10X. Shot them at the range today with following results:

(a) Each shot there was a white vapor/smoke cloud that obscured the target as seen through the scope for 3 to 5 seconds after the shot.
(b) Visually Inspected barrel after each shot, there were 4 to 5 black granules in the barrel each time.
(c) Slight carbon on neck of 4 of 5 cases; one had heavy carbon on the neck.
(d) Shot all 5 rounds while using LabRadar Chronograph - But only one registered on the Chronograph. It showed a velocity of 2541 feet per second. Velocity was higher than I anticipated. Given lack of rounds registering; I'll chronograph these again downstream.
(e) recoil and "feel" of each shot was relatively same; so it seemed to be consistent.
(f) and finally; the 100 Yard Group was 4 inches. The bull is a 1 and 1/4 spot paster. See group below:



The 311041 has not performed well in this Rifle compared to other boolits. I was more interested in seeing how the Golden Powder (despite being "Burned") performed. The 311041's were all leftovers in a container on the reloading bench I wanted to use up.

but why did you only use 33 grains? I believe that the .308 case holds much more! I would fill it to the brim! And frankly... I don't think that speed is real... I believe the chronograph marked it wrong... I don't think even 33 grains of smokeless gunpowder would give that speed. It's just a guess.

[MUSTANG]

Answer to previous comments is "I don't Know".

As previously indicated; I want to try again at a later date. May shoot another test over the ProChronoDLX Chronograph I have on the shelf and do same again for the LabRadar Chronograph. Current Winter conditions with Snow, Fog, cloud cover, etc... are not conducive to Light Screen Chronographs - but then again I only got one of 5 rounds to register with the LabRadar unit.

My thoughts are (based on the feel for each shot); the burn rate may be a slow build - giving the feel of a more moderate push in the shoulder instead of a Rapid slam for bullet weight and recorded velocity. I am also contemplating going from the 311041 at a 182 Grain weight to a RCBS 200 Silhouette Powder Coated Boolit with a nominal weight of 200 grains. Interestingly; that would put the RCBS 200 Sil at about the same weight as a .490 ball for my 50 Hawken and although different firearms; might give some interesting comparisons over time.

As for cooking Golden Powder more - unknown. I simply was being Cheap (Frugal) and giving the powder I cooked a try instead of simply throwing it out when it looked like I had spoiled it. We still have 6 to 8 8 weeks of Winter and Snow looking at us based on history here in NorthWest Montana so there will be time to think, contemplate, and mix up another batch or two of Golden Powder (Other Smokeless Powders I have been researching also); but good days for the range may or may not be as plentiful for a bit.

As to 33 Grains selected - two fold:

(a) 33 Grains is what I have been using as a load in other testing I have been doing for DIY Smokeless Powder. See my thread at https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ing&highlight=

(b) When I ground the heavily cooked Golden Powder; I did so in very rough grains as described previously. 33 Grains was just about at the neck of the .308 Case with the Granularity of the Powder I produced. This allowed the Cast Boolit with Gas check to be seated with the Boolit base about even with the bottom of the neck; and not compress the Powder.

One of the tenants of the Scientific Process as taught to me In Grade School quite some decades ago was multiple testing to ensure repeatability - as well as ability for others to replicate similar results with the same testing regimen.

I remember back in the late 1960's or early 1970's the TV News being awash with news on a couple of Scientists claiming that they had achieved COLD FUSION; but the stories died out and the Scientists were discredited when no one else could replicate their results.

[RJTyler]

Hi Folks,

I hope that I a doing this post correctly, first time.

I have been following this golden powder thread and have cooked up several small batches just to get a feel for the process. I have been using the 63/37 percent ratio of potassium nitrate to ascorbic acid. After undercooking the first batch I pushed the cook time a little farther and results have been tanish in color and relatively easy to crush into granules that are about 3F in size. I haven't yet loaded it into cartridges however open-air flash tests put the burn speed fairly close to my screened homemade BP.

A while back a question was asked about substituting citric acid for ascorbic acid so I figured that I would give that combination a try. The first batch at 63/37 cooked to a light yellow and then appeared to stop changing color. I pushed it a bit farther. more than seemed necessary for the GP, and I probably chickened out too soon. The result remained very plastic at room temperature therefore pretty much impossible to crush into granules. The small pile of smallest pieces burned relatively slowly.

I tried a 75/25 mixture for the next batch, still ended up with a plastic end result even though I felt that I pushed it even harder. Open burn test was slow and the residue seems to indicate excess PN. Would make a heck of a smoke grenade however.

The next attempt was a 65/35 mixture. I decided that I was going to push the cooking to the limit so positioned myself at the mouth of the garage (still drizzly in this neck of the woods) so that I could eject the mixture if the process got out of hand. I kept it on the heat until it turned light brown (darker than tan). I was just thinking that I had pushed it hard enough when the mass went from flat to beginning to puff up like a baking powder biscuit in the oven. It also began ejecting white vapor. I move the pan outside and made ready to toss it however the reaction finally subsided. During this event there was no flame or incandescence nor did the batch burn up. The end result was medium brown and crushable with a mortar and pestle. I have done one open flash burn and it was slower than the GP or BP but relatively fast compared to the previous citric acid batches. I will certainly have to try some of this in a cartridge.

These few small batches using citric acid really don't prove much except that citric acid may be a viable alternative to ascorbic acid. i will continue to mess around with this in an effort to refine a processing technique and optimum ratios. I also intend to try various percentages of ascorbic and citric acid mixtures. The plastic nature of some of the citric acid mixture may be useful in the formation of "designer" grains, who knows.

Just thought I would share what I know at this point, which isn't much, but it is more than I knew before. It's all fun!

[Nobade]

Welcome RJTyler! It looks like you'll fit in well around here. It will certainly be interesting to see where the citric acid mix goes. Thank you for your contribution.

[dverna]

Yes, welcome RJ

Good first post!!