My homemade Golden powder!

[Sandro_ventania]

Answer to previous comments is "I don't Know".

As previously indicated; I want to try again at a later date. May shoot another test over the ProChronoDLX Chronograph I have on the shelf and do same again for the LabRadar Chronograph. Current Winter conditions with Snow, Fog, cloud cover, etc... are not conducive to Light Screen Chronographs - but then again I only got one of 5 rounds to register with the LabRadar unit.

My thoughts are (based on the feel for each shot); the burn rate may be a slow build - giving the feel of a more moderate push in the shoulder instead of a Rapid slam for bullet weight and recorded velocity. I am also contemplating going from the 311041 at a 182 Grain weight to a RCBS 200 Silhouette Powder Coated Boolit with a nominal weight of 200 grains. Interestingly; that would put the RCBS 200 Sil at about the same weight as a .490 ball for my 50 Hawken and although different firearms; might give some interesting comparisons over time.

As for cooking Golden Powder more - unknown. I simply was being Cheap (Frugal) and giving the powder I cooked a try instead of simply throwing it out when it looked like I had spoiled it. We still have 6 to 8 8 weeks of Winter and Snow looking at us based on history here in NorthWest Montana so there will be time to think, contemplate, and mix up another batch or two of Golden Powder (Other Smokeless Powders I have been researching also); but good days for the range may or may not be as plentiful for a bit.

As to 33 Grains selected - two fold:

(a) 33 Grains is what I have been using as a load in other testing I have been doing for DIY Smokeless Powder. See my thread at https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ing&highlight=

(b) When I ground the heavily cooked Golden Powder; I did so in very rough grains as described previously. 33 Grains was just about at the neck of the .308 Case with the Granularity of the Powder I produced. This allowed the Cast Boolit with Gas check to be seated with the Boolit base about even with the bottom of the neck; and not compress the Powder.

One of the tenants of the Scientific Process as taught to me In Grade School quite some decades ago was multiple testing to ensure repeatability - as well as ability for others to replicate similar results with the same testing regimen.

I remember back in the late 1960's or early 1970's the TV News being awash with news on a couple of Scientists claiming that they had achieved COLD FUSION; but the stories died out and the Scientists were discredited when no one else could replicate their results.

Mustang, you're right, the scientific process says you have to change one variable at a time to be able to measure results faithfully. That being said, I think you should also keep the weight of the bullets the same as well.

[Sandro_ventania]

Hi Folks,

I hope that I a doing this post correctly, first time.

I have been following this golden powder thread and have cooked up several small batches just to get a feel for the process. I have been using the 63/37 percent ratio of potassium nitrate to ascorbic acid. After undercooking the first batch I pushed the cook time a little farther and results have been tanish in color and relatively easy to crush into granules that are about 3F in size. I haven't yet loaded it into cartridges however open-air flash tests put the burn speed fairly close to my screened homemade BP.

A while back a question was asked about substituting citric acid for ascorbic acid so I figured that I would give that combination a try. The first batch at 63/37 cooked to a light yellow and then appeared to stop changing color. I pushed it a bit farther. more than seemed necessary for the GP, and I probably chickened out too soon. The result remained very plastic at room temperature therefore pretty much impossible to crush into granules. The small pile of smallest pieces burned relatively slowly.

I tried a 75/25 mixture for the next batch, still ended up with a plastic end result even though I felt that I pushed it even harder. Open burn test was slow and the residue seems to indicate excess PN. Would make a heck of a smoke grenade however.

The next attempt was a 65/35 mixture. I decided that I was going to push the cooking to the limit so positioned myself at the mouth of the garage (still drizzly in this neck of the woods) so that I could eject the mixture if the process got out of hand. I kept it on the heat until it turned light brown (darker than tan). I was just thinking that I had pushed it hard enough when the mass went from flat to beginning to puff up like a baking powder biscuit in the oven. It also began ejecting white vapor. I move the pan outside and made ready to toss it however the reaction finally subsided. During this event there was no flame or incandescence nor did the batch burn up. The end result was medium brown and crushable with a mortar and pestle. I have done one open flash burn and it was slower than the GP or BP but relatively fast compared to the previous citric acid batches. I will certainly have to try some of this in a cartridge.

These few small batches using citric acid really don't prove much except that citric acid may be a viable alternative to ascorbic acid. i will continue to mess around with this in an effort to refine a processing technique and optimum ratios. I also intend to try various percentages of ascorbic and citric acid mixtures. The plastic nature of some of the citric acid mixture may be useful in the formation of "designer" grains, who knows.

Just thought I would share what I know at this point, which isn't much, but it is more than I knew before. It's all fun!

Welcome RJ! For the first post, you arrived very well! Congratulations!! As soon as possible, show us grouping and speed tests. And thank you very much for doing the test with citric acid, sometimes the free burning speed is slow, but in the weapon it can be different and the amount of gases can be higher, increasing the speed of the projectile.

[Sandro_ventania]

Guys, I want to share an experience I had. I ground some match heads, which contain approximately 35% chlorate, and mixed the powder with the GP in the proportions of 75GP - 25% phosphorus and 70% GP - 30% phosphorus. Using a .36 underhammer patch and ball gun, with 6 grains of load. These were the results: GP = 420 feet/sec. GP-25= 531 ft/sec. GP-30= 633 ft/sec. Furthermore, I observed an even cleaner burn. Those who have access to pure chlorate have a good option. I repeat, I simply mixed the powders, I didn't cook them together, I don't know at what temperature cooking chlorate is safe, but the dry mixture gave a great result.

[2TM101]

I just took all of my golden powder, mixed in all of my BP fines and 5F powder (for about 15% of the total) and started pucking it like regular BP. It DOES, and surprisingly well. Even seems to take about the same amount of compression. Resulting powder mix was slate grey and pucks are grey with black flecks in them. I'm guessing the flecks are the 5F powder I threw in because I had no other use for it.

[Nobade]

I just took all of my golden powder, mixed in all of my BP fines and 5F powder (for about 15% of the total) and started pucking it like regular BP. It DOES, and surprisingly well. Even seems to take about the same amount of compression. Resulting powder mix was slate grey and pucks are grey with black flecks in them. I'm guessing the flecks are the 5F powder I threw in because I had no other use for it.

It's interesting that you got that result. I admittedly didn't add any black powder to my GP but when I tried pucking it, it stuck to the die and was very difficult to remove then when I broke up the puck it pretty much just crumbled and returned back to powder like it started.

[ofitg]

I have read that the sulfur in BP becomes colloidal (ie, fluid) at "pucking" pressures and fills in voids between the charcoal and saltpeter particles, cementing them together.

[HamGunner]

It's interesting that you got that result. I admittedly didn't add any black powder to my GP but when I tried pucking it, it stuck to the die and was very difficult to remove then when I broke up the puck it pretty much just crumbled and returned back to powder like it started.

I have not messed with compressing any Golden Powder(60% Potassium Nitrate/40% Ascorbic Acid), but only cooking and grinding and screening. The granules remained fairly hard, but I had to set my grinder to a coarser setting to prevent making extra fines, so it must be a bit softer than corned Black Powder.

I have milled up, compressed, ground, and screened a small batch each of Crimson Powder (64.3% Potassium Nitrate/32.1% Ascorbic Acid/1.8% Red Iron Oxide/1.8% Charcoal) and what I am calling Gray Powder (61% Potassium Nitrate/31% Ascorbic Acid/5% Manganese Dioxide/3% Charcoal). The Gray Powder turned out a very light colored Gray.

Apparently the Ascorbic Acid mixtures makes the compressed pucks want to stick to the compression die. Both wanted to stick to my compression die and took a bit more pressure to press the pucks out of the die itself. I had to use steel wool to get the stainless steel compression die clean before oiling and putting away.

Both powders compressed, ground up, and screened about like Black Powder. I will eventually get some velocity comparison tests fired when I get the time, comparing Goex, my TP Black, Crimson, Gray, and I suppose Golden. Something to play with just for fun. I will take a digital scale with me and actually weigh out the charges so that perhaps it will give a little better scientific comparison rather than just using volume measure.

[Sandro_ventania]

I have not messed with compressing any Golden Powder(60% Potassium Nitrate/40% Ascorbic Acid), but only cooking and grinding and screening. The granules remained fairly hard, but I had to set my grinder to a coarser setting to prevent making extra fines, so it must be a bit softer than corned Black Powder.

I have milled up, compressed, ground, and screened a small batch each of Crimson Powder (64.3% Potassium Nitrate/32.1% Ascorbic Acid/1.8% Red Iron Oxide/1.8% Charcoal) and what I am calling Gray Powder (61% Potassium Nitrate/31% Ascorbic Acid/5% Manganese Dioxide/3% Charcoal). The Gray Powder turned out a very light colored Gray.

Apparently the Ascorbic Acid mixtures makes the compressed pucks want to stick to the compression die. Both wanted to stick to my compression die and took a bit more pressure to press the pucks out of the die itself. I had to use steel wool to get the stainless steel compression die clean before oiling and putting away.

Both powders compressed, ground up, and screened about like Black Powder. I will eventually get some velocity comparison tests fired when I get the time, comparing Goex, my TP Black, Crimson, Gray, and I suppose Golden. Something to play with just for fun. I will take a digital scale with me and actually weigh out the charges so that perhaps it will give a little better scientific comparison rather than just using volume measure.

Very curious to know how the gray powder will behave. You could make a batch of crimson powder by just swapping the iron oxide for manganese dioxide. To find out if manganese dioxide is a better catalyst than iron oxide. Be cautious when testing, always use a low load at the beginning.

[Nobade]

I just finished a test of the three powders I had made - regular golden powder, crimson powder, and crimson plus charcoal. I used the same five cartridge cases for each test, in the TC Contender 22 Hornet. Bullet was the Ranch Dog 50.

First was the powder with charcoal. One good shot and four much weaker shots, accuracy was nonexistent. Next was the crimson powder. Three good shots and two weak. Much better accuracy but still not impressive. Next was the several months old golden powder. Five powerful shots, all better than any of the others. Accuracy was normal for this gun, a dime size group at 25 yards without even trying. This is about on the level power wise as black powder, and much easier to deal with since there is no fouling buildup. It's starting to approach 22 magnum power levels and would be quite useful.

The crimson powder still flashes faster than the golden powder but in guns it is very much inferior. The charcoal powder is useless. I guess I will stick to the simpler golden powder, especially since it is much easier to make. Anybody else try them back to back yet?

I need to go back to the 45 acp and see if the older golden powder will cycle the action now.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I have a 45 cal muzzle loader test lined up for Monday. I weighed 65grains of GP CP and BP to be tested back to back with a Lee 459-500-3R Boolit. My best boolit for this gun. Since muzzle loaders have no limit on how much powder you can stuff in there I think it would benefit from a weaker but still useful powder like GP. Managing fouling is the part of muzzleloading that I like the least so I hope it works well.

[Nobade]

Looking forward to the results!

[Sandro_ventania]

I just finished a test of the three powders I had made - regular golden powder, crimson powder, and crimson plus charcoal. I used the same five cartridge cases for each test, in the TC Contender 22 Hornet. Bullet was the Ranch Dog 50.

First was the powder with charcoal. One good shot and four much weaker shots, accuracy was nonexistent. Next was the crimson powder. Three good shots and two weak. Much better accuracy but still not impressive. Next was the several months old golden powder. Five powerful shots, all better than any of the others. Accuracy was normal for this gun, a dime size group at 25 yards without even trying. This is about on the level power wise as black powder, and much easier to deal with since there is no fouling buildup. It's starting to approach 22 magnum power levels and would be quite useful.

The crimson powder still flashes faster than the golden powder but in guns it is very much inferior. The charcoal powder is useless. I guess I will stick to the simpler golden powder, especially since it is much easier to make. Anybody else try them back to back yet?

I need to go back to the 45 acp and see if the older golden powder will cycle the action now.

The result is quite interesting. I would bet crimson would be best! Did you fill the case? I like this caliber, I wanted a gun in it.

[2TM101]

I just took all of my golden powder, mixed in all of my BP fines and 5F powder (for about 15% of the total) and started pucking it like regular BP. It DOES, and surprisingly well. Even seems to take about the same amount of compression. Resulting powder mix was slate grey and pucks are grey with black flecks in them. I'm guessing the flecks are the 5F powder I threw in because I had no other use for it.

For comparison, here is the original 85% golden 15% BP fines mix, and the pucks made the first go around. When ground into powder I got about 50% usable and 50% fines, which I re pucked as you see in the second picture. Much more even grey color.

I DID have the die stick a few times when I first started doing this, then I noticed a layer of...... Seasoning? over the interior of the die. Once that formed it no longer not only did not stick, but when I picked it up the plunger part actually fell out a few times.

I have not tried to puck pure golden powder. I had fines left over from before the whole GP thing started and I just threw them in, so I do not know how much of a difference it makes. I'm also using a Chinese 6 ton press that is now leaking so the pressure is another variable.

[Nobade]

The result is quite interesting. I would bet crimson would be best! Did you fill the case? I like this caliber, I wanted a gun in it.

I would have thought that too. The charge was simply to fill the case to the top and seat a bullet. I like the Hornet too, but unfortunately cartridge cases are all but impossible to get any more. I load the remaining ones I have to low pressure in an effort to make them last as long as possible.

[barrabruce]

Nobade how have you stored your GP over the 3 mths?
Open to air in humid conditions?
I’m finding this interesting
I think I’ll knock up another batch.
You using 60/40 or 65/35?
I used to put things on top of my old water heater and it kept things dry and warm.
But the new one must have better insulation and is not warm at all.
I know Airconditioning will suck the moisture out at well as our fridge.
I may keep an open jar in the fridge.
I wonder if just heating it up a little in the fry pan would drive off the water and freshen it up some.
How did/do the black powder shooters cope with the hot wet tropics?
Lots to learn about this smoky stuff.

[Nobade]

Nobade how have you stored your GP over the 3 mths?
Open to air in humid conditions?
I’m finding this interesting
I think I’ll knock up another batch.
You using 60/40 or 65/35?
I used to put things on top of my old water heater and it kept things dry and warm.
But the new one must have better insulation and is not warm at all.
I know Airconditioning will suck the moisture out at well as our fridge.
I may keep an open jar in the fridge.
I wonder if just heating it up a little in the fry pan would drive off the water and freshen it up some.
How did/do the black powder shooters cope with the hot wet tropics?
Lots to learn about this smoky stuff.

I'm keeping it in Tupperware containers on my loading bench, which is currently fairly cool and humid. I have been intrigued at how it seems to get more powerful over time, I made a batch of regular GP (60-40) last night. I flash tested some, and it's kind of slow. I'm going to let it age for a while and keep testing to see what happens. But so far it all works better after it has been allowed to sit as opposed to being a fresh batch.

[Sandro_ventania]

I'm keeping it in Tupperware containers on my loading bench, which is currently fairly cool and humid. I have been intrigued at how it seems to get more powerful over time, I made a batch of regular GP (60-40) last night. I flash tested some, and it's kind of slow. I'm going to let it age for a while and keep testing to see what happens. But so far it all works better after it has been allowed to sit as opposed to being a fresh batch.

I have a batch that is over a year old. I'm going to chronograph it and compare it to a new batch. Time has made it darker, this really indicates an ongoing process, we will see what this indicates.

[Nobade]

I have a batch that is over a year old. I'm going to chronograph it and compare it to a new batch. Time has made it darker, this really indicates an ongoing process, we will see what this indicates.

That will be very interesting! I'm glad you have some that old to test.

[Sandro_ventania]

That will be very interesting! I'm glad you have some that old to test.

Nobade, I took some shots today, they were few, but it already indicates that your observation is correct. Using 6 grains of GP, a few weeks' batch speed of 415fps. The batch with more than a year the speed was 450fps. The saved powder absorbed some moisture and had to be dried by placing it in a pan at a temperature of 60 degrees. As noted, the powder only gets darker and absorbs moisture, but it does not degrade, simply drying to remove the moisture it has absorbed. as Nobade observed, it seems to even improve. As the batches are not very standardized, we cannot yet say.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

As promised here's my Super Test!
https://youtu.be/1irzH27Ix0A?si=HzD0d0WlzgmfRbRz

All charges were 65gr by weight and the Lee 459-500-3R Boolit with an unlubed wood wad under it. Distance was 50 Yards. Rifle was the CVA Accura in 45 Cal.

Here's the numbers:

GP 588 (cold bore), 666: Avg 621 Gouping 3"

CP 918, 904, 898: Avg 906 Grouping "One Hole"

Balsa Corned 1097, 1120, 1034: Avg 1083 Grouping 2.5" Vertical String

Weeping Willow Screened w/SGRS 877, 917, 897: Avg 897 Grouping "One Hole"

In short, the Crimson perfectly matched my old stand by Screened Willow with Rice Starch binder 3%. The GP fell short. Seeing how screened powder isn't that much harder to make than Crimson I don't have much use for it, but it's still nice to know it works and it works really well. Keep in mind, for my Crimson I added the Iron and Carbon after there was color change, and I did not mill my carbon. It simply went through the meat grinder once.