DIY Smokeless Powder - No. 7 Smokeless Powder Manufacturing

[MUSTANG]

I looked in the barrel and chamber after the Test #1 firing of 5 rounds. Could not see any trash or residue at that time.

As an indicator of the two - See the following picture. The Test #2 brass (and fail to fire) are on the left. The right is from the Test #1. Notice how dirty the Brass on the left is; chamber is collecting trash too from the 5 rounds.
I'll be cleaning the rifle in a little bit.


Click on picture to enlarge.

[elmacgyver0]

I find this fascinating, I am old enough and have enough powder to hopefully last me thru out my remaining years, but you never know.
I am mainly doing the primer reloading because I find it fun and can do it inside where it is warm.
Good luck with your experiments!

[armoredman]

Nifty! I didn't know you could make smokeless powder at home...@LAGS...

[ofitg]

Thanks for the update - very concise data.


EDIT - Instead of IMR-4320/Varget, my GRT simulator suggests that it might be a closer match to IMR-4350.

[Bazoo]

Wow, I had no idea making smokeless powder was within the realm of the home chemist. Thank you for sharing this.

[perotter]

Thanks for the report.

[Slugster]

Extremely interesting subject. Will follow this thread.

[MUSTANG]

Thanks for the update - very concise data.


EDIT - Instead of IMR-4320/Varget, my GRT simulator suggests that it might be a closer match to IMR-4350.

Interesting. More inferred data should come when I test the DIY 33 Grains of No.7 Smokeless Powder using the RCBS 200 Sil boolits. This will allow a velocity comparison between my current 30 Grains of BLC-2 with that Boolit and the No.7. From there; would be able to postulate what other powders may have similar performance. A portion of a Powder Burn Rate Chart follows:


Click to enlarge.

I have Lever-Evolution, CFE223, IMR4895, BLC2, WC748, and W760 on hand which should give us some ability to pin the area down where the burn rate is for the No.7 with Air Drying. Do not believe it is going to drop down into the WC860/870/872 range; but can do that too if needed.

Of course; will still need to determine why the Cooked and 20 Mesh failed to perform as described in the 1944 manual, and even failed to fire on one round. My current thinking is that 20 Mesh screening is too fine for the powder to burn; but that validation will be put off for a few weeks/months as I work with the moderate success of the Air Dried. May re-wet the Cooked powder I still have left; and air dry it to see if the Chemical remains valid after cooking and it can be recovered by establishing a larger grain structure.

A warning to anyone that tries to replicate my results; when loading the No.7 powder, I have been individually weighing and pouring via a funnel into each case. This No.7 powder inevitably "Bridges" and the funnel/case has to be tapped to break the bridge in filling the case. The Air Dried was less in bridging; the Cooked and 20 Mesh Screened was much more prone to bridging and takes a more forceful tapping of the Funnel/Case to get it past the Neck of the case.

[HWooldridge]

Is it worth adding a bit of powdered graphite to help with powder flow?

[ofitg]

Interesting. More inferred data should come when I test the DIY 33 Grains of No.7 Smokeless Powder using the RCBS 200 Sil boolits. This will allow a velocity comparison between my current 30 Grains of BLC-2 with that Boolit and the No.7. From there; would be able to postulate what other powders may have similar performance. A portion of a Powder Burn Rate Chart follows:


Click to enlarge.

I have Lever-Evolution, CFE223, IMR4895, BLC2, WC748, and W760 on hand which should give us some ability to pin the area down where the burn rate is for the No.7 with Air Drying. Do not believe it is going to drop down into the WC860/870/872 range; but can do that too if needed.

Of course; will still need to determine why the Cooked and 20 Mesh failed to perform as described in the 1944 manual, and even failed to fire on one round. My current thinking is that 20 Mesh screening is too fine for the powder to burn; but that validation will be put off for a few weeks/months as I work with the moderate success of the Air Dried. May re-wet the Cooked powder I still have left; and air dry it to see if the Chemical remains valid after cooking and it can be recovered by establishing a larger grain structure.

A warning to anyone that tries to replicate my results; when loading the No.7 powder, I have been individually weighing and pouring via a funnel into each case. This No.7 powder inevitably "Bridges" and the funnel/case has to be tapped to break the bridge in filling the case. The Air Dried was less in bridging; the Cooked and 20 Mesh Screened was much more prone to bridging and takes a more forceful tapping of the Funnel/Case to get it past the Neck of the case.

Your initial batch of five rounds was encouraging. As you experiment further, I imagine you will find improvements to the process (and the performance).

[Doughty]

Looking good, sir. Please continue on.

[Sandro_ventania]

Interesting. More inferred data should come when I test the DIY 33 Grains of No.7 Smokeless Powder using the RCBS 200 Sil boolits. This will allow a velocity comparison between my current 30 Grains of BLC-2 with that Boolit and the No.7. From there; would be able to postulate what other powders may have similar performance. A portion of a Powder Burn Rate Chart follows:


Click to enlarge.

I have Lever-Evolution, CFE223, IMR4895, BLC2, WC748, and W760 on hand which should give us some ability to pin the area down where the burn rate is for the No.7 with Air Drying. Do not believe it is going to drop down into the WC860/870/872 range; but can do that too if needed.

Of course; will still need to determine why the Cooked and 20 Mesh failed to perform as described in the 1944 manual, and even failed to fire on one round. My current thinking is that 20 Mesh screening is too fine for the powder to burn; but that validation will be put off for a few weeks/months as I work with the moderate success of the Air Dried. May re-wet the Cooked powder I still have left; and air dry it to see if the Chemical remains valid after cooking and it can be recovered by establishing a larger grain structure.

A warning to anyone that tries to replicate my results; when loading the No.7 powder, I have been individually weighing and pouring via a funnel into each case. This No.7 powder inevitably "Bridges" and the funnel/case has to be tapped to break the bridge in filling the case. The Air Dried was less in bridging; the Cooked and 20 Mesh Screened was much more prone to bridging and takes a more forceful tapping of the Funnel/Case to get it past the Neck of the case.

Mustang, take a look at this thread. It could be a very interesting option for you to test too.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-Golden-powder!

[frkelly74]

Following this interesting discussion

[GONRA]

GONRA sez listen to dverna!
Loooong string!!

[GONRA]

Bazoo sez: "Wow, I had no idea making smokeless powder was within the realm of the home chemist. "
GONRA sez - it really ISN'T. Watchout! !!

Practical applications involve much larger quantities than primers!!
One of ya'll is gonna get seriously hurt or worse with Basement Propellants....

[MUSTANG]

Love to hear from a Professional Chemist.

[MUSTANG]

Had a batch of the Test #2 Cooked Powder left over after the 5 round test. My current thinking is it performed poorly because it was too fine, and needed to be more granular like the Test #1 batch. I took about 180 grains and mixed it with water’ let it stand for two days, then started scraping it into a pile and then stirring the pile for drying each day for three days. I let it sit another day in the pile:


Click to enlarge.

Next day I crushed it with the face of a small hammer (not beating with a hammer – hammer face used as a pestal); screened it in the large mesh Kitchen strainer used for Test #1, crushed the particles that did not go through the screen, and did so again until all particles passed through the Kitchen Screen.

Somehow, the 180 grains I started with turned into a smaller 138 grains – so I was only able to load up 4 .308 Winchester cases with 33 Grains each. Placed a NOE 311041 powder coated boolit weighing 182.5 grains over each of the 4 cases of “Re-Constituted” cooked No.7 Powder. Will be interesting to see if wetting the “Cooked” powder, drying, and granular sizing will have any affect and what the impact will be.

I had a little of the Test #1 powder left so I loaded a case up with it and placed a NOE 311041 over it also. Hopefully will get to the range this week and test.

[perotter]

FWIW. I use a 32 mesh screen sift out the fines when use powders of this type.

Also, if one is having problems with getting a good burn rate they might want to add 1% to 3% by weight potassium dichromate to the mix. It increases the burn rate and ease of ignition. I used it in almost all of the AN based powders I tested.

When AN burns the first thing that is produced is water. That water forms into a a thin layer on molecules of AN. On that molecule of AN that water has to be drive off before it ignites. That's the reason AN burns slow. One of the best ways to get rid of that layer of water rapidly is by adding a small amount of aluminum powder to the mix, but I don't remember what amounts should be used and would have to look it up. Because of the high temp of the aluminum powder is the reason it works well at driving the water off.

But I never found the need to use the aluminum powder, but likely would have to if trying to make a pistol or shotgun powder. FWIW.

[perotter]

By the way there was a thread on here about 15 years ago where a guy was testing an AN powder and he did some testing with a duplex load to get good burn. I think the thread title was something like 'Determining an unknown burn rate'.

[firefly1957]

I subscribed to the thread and am watching !
My main goal was just percussion caps but seeing the latest primer prices I worked out a formula for them as well .
Powder could well be next the way things are heading! ( I have had some good luck with black powder making already) .