Lightweight .45/70 boolit choice ?

[Iowa Fox]

Click on the lee banner and go the rifle molds. The 457-340F might be a good one for you to try. If it drops a little small powder coat it. Trail Boss is hard to come by but Book loads of Unique work very well for reduced recoil loads.

[Gray Fox]

I'm as much of a .45-70 fan as anybody as evidenced by how many I own, but I think that the published .45 Colt Ruger and Contender loads with Win 296/H110 with a 300-grain HP will give you 1,300 fps out of a 10" barrel. That should work for any deer or hog and the brass is much cheaper. Just my $.02. GF

[JDL]

I haven't taken the time to work up a top load but, I'm loading 15 grains of Unique behind a Lyman 457191 for my Handirifle. Only shoots 3 MOA but, it's fine for my hunting area as I can't see more than 60 yards. Very soft recoil.

[Bowhunter73]

Get a NOE 460-315-RF-AV3 comes with 3 sets of pins deep hollowpoint, dish HP or flat nose solid. When I use the deep HP pin I'm dropping between 280 to 290 grain boolit. These boolits were shot out of my Air Force Texan air rifle into soft ground 35 yards using pure lead with a little COWW mix.

[BobT]

Click on the lee banner and go the rifle molds. The 457-340F might be a good one for you to try. If it drops a little small powder coat it. Trail Boss is hard to come by but Book loads of Unique work very well for reduced recoil loads.

I have this Lee mold, I'll give it a try but I think it is probably a little small in diameter IIRC.

Get a NOE 460-315-RF-AV3 comes with 3 sets of pins deep hollowpoint, dish HP or flat nose solid. When I use the deep HP pin I'm dropping between 280 to 290 grain boolit.

This one looks very interesting!

Thanks for all the replies so far, keep them coming!

[Johnch]

In the 14" TC Contender barrel , 45/70 BFR and Marlin rifle
I use a 300 gr GC bullet that I cast out of reclaimed lead that is between WW and pure lead (Free Range Lead )
11 or 12 grains of Unique
Any standard LR primer

This is not a fast load
But when I am hunting the woods where shots might get to 100 yards
Normal shots tend to be 50 yards Max
I have had 0 problems even with a couple of large bucks

John

[Kai]

The NEI 458-300 is a 300gr gas checked bullet that is my go to light 45 cal bullet. I shoot this bullet with Trailboss or IMR 4198 in a 1873 Springfield and an 1876 Winchester in 45-75. Very accurate bullet.

[Elmer Fudd]

Maybe this:
Decide how you like your bullet to perform: penetrate deep and not deform a lot OR sacrifice a bit or a lot of penetration and expect expansion. That can guide you/us to a clearer conclusion.
Most any FN design will penetrate straight and deep, even in big animals, driven at 1100fps and up. A RN will too, but with a smaller wound channel and usually less resultant tissue damage and bleeding.
Most any nose design will expand if cast soft enough and driven hard enough, but the HP will exceed the solid cast nose. I think we are at about a dozen variables now, with the only known being your cartridge of choice and your bore diameter. Factor in pressure curve, bore roughness, throat size, bullet characteristics (nose, lube volume, GC or not, etc) and all the other variables and I just confused the issue beyond repair.
So, my choice, start with a softer alloy and a lighter boolit sized over your bore size that fills the throat as full as you can get it and you will be on your way to an expanding "slow" bullet in the cavernous cartridge in your "car carbine," as my 14 year old son calls that setup.
Cast of lead, pure you may call it, with just a touch of something to help fillout, and 1200 fps, you should be super happy on anything from squirrels and rabbits up to deers and bears. Same as you would with a TC/Ruger loaded 45 colt.
But that's my opinion and experience.

[Harter66]

I have a Rapine 458-201 which is a .459 255 gr RNFP probably intended for first and 2 nd generation Colts SAAs . In the 1895G I was able to get 2000 fps MV but I'm sure it would be fine as a spicy 45 Colts or 454 level load in a 45-70.

[BobT]

Lots of good information here guys, I appreciate every bit of it! Really my only goal is to find a load that is fun to shoot and can kill deer and hogs to 100 yards or so. Our deer can get pretty big and the hogs can (rarely) get huge as long as I have something that can penetrate enough to get to the giblets on one of those big pigs without knocking me from under my hat I'll be a happy camper. In all honesty this little gun will probably fire several hundred rounds at paper for every shot fired at a critter. Keep it coming!

[Milky Duck]

look at prettty much any of the loading manuals or online manuals and load to low levels for the trapdoor rifles..recoil will be minimal.. trailboss looks good till you cast eye across to the pressure level column.... lots of other powders get you same low velocity at lower pressure.black smelly stuff being one of them LOL.

[Harter66]

I didn't think about it but a .458 round ball is about 165 gr just PC them up to .460 or so with 14-16 gr of Unique or similar and go get em' . There can't be much recoil and a 45 is generally considered the minimum ML cal with RB .

Another possibility is to just paper patch a 45 pistol bullet . You can get 165,180,185,190,195 ,200,205,210,225, 230,250,255 ,260 , 280 ,300 mould and probably at least 4-5 of those in a Lee 6 banger . 75-80 gr of FFFg under a 230 gr SWC should break 1900 maybe 2000 fps MV. Unique will get you 1400 . Use data and powders for jackets or copper monoliths in weight class and speeds should be close to max at start loads.

[sixshot]

I killed a very large buck several years ago, large body but a smallish rack using a Ruger #1 & the old Gould 33 gr HP & a load of 38 grs of 3031, pretty much a factory 45/70 load. That load was a real hammer at brush hunting distance. Of all things, I also shot a fox on that same hunt, there wasn't much left but the feathers!!!

Dick

[Wayne Smith]

I will also second the Lyman Gould boolit. I believe it is the 457122 and is still in their catalog. It has been doing the job for well over 100 years.

[JFE]

For a hunting load the Lyman Gould bullet is a good suggestion. Being a HP design it takes more time to cast and has a higher rejection rate - at least it does for me.

I have a mould made by CBE in Oz that I think was designed for an obscure English BP express cartridge. CBE designate it as 458260. In essence it’s a 260gr SWC style bullet. CBE no longer list it but the likes of Accurate Molds in the US could knock up something similar. I’d suggest an upsized version of Keith’s 452424 but around 0.460-0.462” diameter, then size to your requirements. (This would give you the performance and reduced recoil you’re after. Plus it will be easier to cast with fewer rejects.

Use the Gould bullet for hunting and the upsized Keith bullet for plinking or hunting.

[2TM101]

You can go to a 150 gr collar button design and have a basic equivalent to a lightweight 45 Colt load. They are quite accurate to 50 yards - I've killed feral hogs with my Rem rolling block using these light pills, and that's with open sights. A scope would surely work out to 100.

Lee 90570 is 160 gr but sounds close to what you describe. Even looks like a pan lube bullet. If the original carbine load for this was a 405 grain bullet with 55 grains of BP, I'm guessing with this bullet you may only want 25 and then fill the case up the rest of the way with used coffee grounds.

[BobT]

I haven't cast any yet but I bought a Lyman Gould HP mold, I'm anxious to try it out, hopefully I get to soon!

[HBAR2989]

I've used 16 grains of Unique in my guide gun behind a Lee 405, and 340 grain. Both will stack the bullets on top of each other at 50 yards. Recoil is about like a 20 ga or less. They do have a lot of drop at 100 yards. It's not my hunting load, but could very well be if my shots were 75 yards or less.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I use the RCBS 45-300 FN with gas check in a Marlin 1895. Slow it down to 1200fps for better than 44 mag results, I speed it up to 2100fps for elk. THE heavier the bullet the more recoil at the same velocity. I had an old Lyman 454424 that threw a .458 at 265 grains that worked well for light 45-70 (45 Colt) equivalent loads. 300 grains at 2100fps usually exit elk, no need for much more bullet weight, maybe for bison? For deer a fat 45 Colt bullet, semi-wadcutter or round nose flat 45 at 250-300grains from a single shot would work well. For hunting cast soft, 20-1 or so, for practice/fun - whatever works for you. Recoil is the enemy of fun and productive practice. TiteGroup, Universal, Unique all work for the mild loads. A 5lb 45-70 could get very unpleasant very fast, could be hard on scopes too.

[BobT]

For now I'm going to work with the Lee 340 flat point and the Lyman 330 grain HP. If I can get either of these boolits up to 1100 fps. with acceptable accuracy I'll call it good. My initial loads will be with Unique and I will probably use a 50/50 coww/pb mix.

Thanks again for all the responses so far!