Need Advice with loading 44-40

[hwilliam01]

I recently bought a 44-40 SA pistol and some time later, a lever gun, both in 44-40. I bought some cartridges with some used brass and started loading it as if I had been loading 44 Special/44 Magnum (and a lot of other pistol cartridges. I new the 44-40 has a thin wall, so I have been careful not to crush the brass. After tumbling, I deprimed and sized the brass. I hen checked it in a "Cowboy Chamber Checker" and they all fell in and out nicely. I ordered some 200 grain cast bullets from Meister (which specifically says they were made for the 44-40). They are sized at 0.429, which is what my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says the bullets were sized at for the test loads.

Once I loaded the cartridges with powder and placed the bullet on top and seated to the crimp grove on the bullet, they looked great...just like I expected them to do. I am uing a Lee Turret press and brought the adjustment all the way up and applied the roll crimp to remove the belling for seating the Bullets. I then went to the range and a number of them would not fit either the revolver or the lever action. I checked them in the Cowboy Chamber Checker and they would not go in all the way. They would stop about 1/8 to 1/4 of from going all the way down.

I then checked the 100 or so that I had loaded and found that only 1/3 of them passed and the remainder failed the chamber check. Ok...so my thoughts were that the sizing die must not have been adjusted all the way down. I disassembeled them and resized them. They now all pass the chamber check with no bullet attached. So I started to reload the resized brass. Primed, put in powder, very lite flair, bullet in top and seated them to the grove line. Tried one with the seater removed to apply a roll crimp. I also tried a Lee factory crimp die, and one with no crimp and neither of the 3 passed the chamber check. What am I doing wrong? My thoughts are that the brass neck is the right size before putting the bullet in, but the bullet expands the case so that it can't go down enough. Thoughts? I need help from the brain trust here....Thanks in advance.

[35 Rem]

My 1st thought would be that you are crimping too much a causing the case to buckle just enough to not fit the chamber. But then I read your comment that a round with no crimp at all also fails to chamber and not sure what to say. I doubt a .429 bullet would be large enough to cause this although i usually hear 44-40 shooters using .427 in jacketed. Doesn't seem likely that .002 would cause interference.

[Bent Ramrod]

Relatively tiny differences in length in all the short hyphenated rifle-pistol calibers will cause a slight bulge to form in the case just below the crimp, if a roll crimp is attempted on a longer shell. The rest of them will crimp without problems. This with standard loading dies; the issue doesn’t come up when I use a tong tool like the Winchester.

I found that rather than endlessly monitoring and trimming cases, it was easier to get a Lee Factory Crimp die for these calibers. It crimps by squeezing the case mouth in at the crimp, rather than by pushing it down while rolling it over, like a roll crimp die does. Haven’t had a problem with chambering since I started using them.

In the meantime, another fix would be to make up the ammunition as usual, then take the decapping arrangement out of the FLS die (if there is one), screw the die incrementally into your press and partially re-resize one of the loaded rounds until it drops fully into your gauge. Then run the rest of the loaded rounds through at that setting. Generally it doesn’t need to be anywhere close to a full resize, just a minor bump 1/2 to 2/3rds of the way screwed in, and no sizing lube is needed. Of course, check all the rounds in your gauge so you’re sure they all will fit. An extra step and a nuisance, but it works.

[mehavey]

Check#1: Will a bullet pass through the cylinder and out the front w/o too much effort ? (pencil/eraser push)

[Tall]

When I buy 44 WCF bullets they are .427" OD. I had problems like you are having when I tried using the same bullets as I had used with 44 Special.

https://www.acmebullet.com/Bullets/4...0-200RNFP-S427

[gunther]

Once reloaded for a Ruger 38 40 Buckeye Special. Had the same problem. Turned out the commercial bullets wouldn't go easily through the throats. See post #4. After adjusting the seating depth a little deeper, they worked fine. In spite of undersized throats that thing shot like a rifle.

[Larry Gibson]

In my 44-40 revolver [Ruger Vaquero, old model] it has very tight throats. R-P, Winchester and older makes of cases with a .429 bullet seated will chamber perfectly. Starline and a couple other makes are very tight fit giving the same problem you have. Those cases simply have thicker necks. I use the thicker necked cases with a soft bullet cast of 40-1 alloy sized .428 and they then chamber fine. They bump up to fit the .429 throats.

You have 3 probable solutions;

Get thinner necked cases

Have the chambers reamed to a larger neck size

Use a smaller diameter bullet

[georgerkahn]

While I agree with all suggestions, I will add that I make it a habit of checking case length and trimming (needed quite often!) new brass so all is both to the SAAMI length and the same -- especially for revolver cartridge loading, where the round is crimped. Amazingly (to me) is the disparity in new brass case lengths I've noted.
geo

[Mr Peabody]

I've had 3 handguns in that chambering and they all needed to have the necks opened up for the use of .429 or .430 boolits. I'm surprised Mike Harvey didn't give the Italians a heads up on the issue.

[mehavey]

See https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=14
No (bullet-size) issues at all w/ a "Taylor-Tuned" Uberti 44-40 revolver.

AGAIN for the OP: Can a .429 bullet pass through the cyllinder, or stop short?
If it stops short, how far short (from the cylinder face) ?

[BoBSavage]

I recently bought a 44-40 SA pistol and some time later, a lever gun, both in 44-40. I bought some cartridges with some used brass and started loading it as if I had been loading 44 Special/44 Magnum (and a lot of other pistol cartridges. I new the 44-40 has a thin wall, so I have been careful not to crush the brass. After tumbling, I deprimed and sized the brass. I hen checked it in a "Cowboy Chamber Checker" and they all fell in and out nicely. I ordered some 200 grain cast bullets from Meister (which specifically says they were made for the 44-40). They are sized at 0.429, which is what my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says the bullets were sized at for the test loads.

Once I loaded the cartridges with powder and placed the bullet on top and seated to the crimp grove on the bullet, they looked great...just like I expected them to do. I am uing a Lee Turret press and brought the adjustment all the way up and applied the roll crimp to remove the belling for seating the Bullets. I then went to the range and a number of them would not fit either the revolver or the lever action. I checked them in the Cowboy Chamber Checker and they would not go in all the way. They would stop about 1/8 to 1/4 of from going all the way down.

I then checked the 100 or so that I had loaded and found that only 1/3 of them passed and the remainder failed the chamber check. Ok...so my thoughts were that the sizing die must not have been adjusted all the way down. I disassembeled them and resized them. They now all pass the chamber check with no bullet attached. So I started to reload the resized brass. Primed, put in powder, very lite flair, bullet in top and seated them to the grove line. Tried one with the seater removed to apply a roll crimp. I also tried a Lee factory crimp die, and one with no crimp and neither of the 3 passed the chamber check. What am I doing wrong? My thoughts are that the brass neck is the right size before putting the bullet in, but the bullet expands the case so that it can't go down enough. Thoughts? I need help from the brain trust here....Thanks in advance.

PM sent

[Outpost75]

Redding Profile Crimp die worked better for me than the Lee FCD. Also check chamber neck diameter. Many newer guns have tight chamber necks which are .445-.446 and larger barrel groove diameters of .429-.430. You want .447-.448 chamber neck for adequate clearance with a .429-.430 bullet.

[mehavey]

AGAIN for the OP: Can a .429 bullet pass through the cylinder, or stop short?
If it stops short, how far short (from the cylinder face) ?

(before anything else)

[Hick]

I resize my 44-40 rounds with the sizing die (without the stem) after I seat the bullet. This sizes down the shank of the bullet but leaves the portion ahead of the case at 0.429. It turns them into something that is essentially a heeled bullet like the old 38's. Using this method you can even use 0.429 bullets in 44 Magnum cases (which have thicker brass in the neck region).

[Outpost75]

I resize my 44-40 rounds with the sizing die (without the stem) after I seat the bullet. This sizes down the shank of the bullet but leaves the portion ahead of the case at 0.429. It turns them into something that is essentially a heeled bullet like the old 38's. Using this method you can even use 0.429 bullets in 44 Magnum cases (which have thicker brass in the neck region).

Accurate 43-200QL is a heeled bullet for .44-40 rifles or revolvers having tight chamber necks, but large barrel groove diameter. Also large lube groove adequate for black powder use.

[Hick]

Accurate 43-200QL is a heeled bullet for .44-40 rifles or revolvers having tight chamber necks, but large barrel groove diameter. Also large lube groove adequate for black powder use.

Neat-- I hadn't heard of that bullet

[Outpost75]

Neat-- I hadn't heard of that bullet

Tom also has a 150-grain .358/.375 version loading 3 grains of Bullseye to reduce jump of .38 Long Colt or 3.5 grains in .38 Special firing in .357 chambers and a 260- grain .454/.476 for .455 MkII brass loading 3.5 grains of Bullseye to reduce jump when fired in longer .455 MkI and .455 Colt/Eley chambers. Also for using .45 Schofield brass in .45 Colt chambers with 4.5 grains of Bullseye.

[Texas by God]

I wish that I had known any of this back when I had a 44-40 Vaquero!
I had to size my bullets down to .427” to fit in the cylinder and they shot horribly.
So I sold it…..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Outpost75]

I wish that I had known any of this back when I had a 44-40 Vaquero!
I had to size my bullets down to .427” to fit in the cylinder and they shot horribly.
So I sold it…..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had John Taylor rechamber my Vaquero cylinder, producing .447" chamber necks and .4305 cylinder throats which is wonderfully accurate with .429 bullets.

[Kai]

Your issue has already been addressed. Some cases, the longer one, are getting over crimped. Instead of spending money on a bandaid (lee crimp die) trim all your cases to the same length. Good reloading practices go a long way.