Which Rifle If Loading 22 Hornet To Sub-Sonic

[scottnc]

Thinking about gearing up to use WW cast bullets in the 22 Hornet at sub-sonic velocities. Not for silencer use, I want a reloadable substitute for the 22LR for small game if rimfire ammo becomes hard to get or too $$. 50 yard max. Before heading out to investigate the used racks, what rifles should I look for. I'd prefer a bolt gun but not a single shot.

[cwtebay]

There are a few manufacturers still producing that chambering in a bolt gun. I have an older Savage that still shoots well but I still may find a need for a walking varminter!
I enjoy the cartridge a great deal, can load it down as you propose or make it a more than adequate coyote rifle.

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[square butte]

Old school : Savage 23D - New'ish school : Ruger 77/22H ( bolt shims for best accuracy ) - Big money : Kimber or Anschutz

[Nobade]

Contender or H&R. Both have faster than usual twist rates in the Hornet.
You're going to need a very accurate powder measure to do that and keep the spreads down.

[M-Tecs]

If you can find one at a reasonable price the CZ 527 in 22 Hornet is very nice. Too bad they discontinued them. The Ruger 77 22 Hornet are nice but the barrels are hit and miss. The Ruger hornet rotary mag is the best design.

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/edit...-review/365482

[dverna]

I remember when I could reload 9mm and .38 Spl for less than cost of .22LR. IIRC, I sold over 15k rounds of .22’s during that panic.

If those days return, I would still go with 38/.357 rifles and pistols. IMO the .22 Hornet has a few negatives. The first being cost of cases and second availability if things go south. Plus casting .22 bullets is not for me.

If I “had” to have a .22 CF for what you want to do, I would go with a .223 and try 3-5 gr of Red Dot to see how it works. There are a lot of decent .223’s to choose from, and cases are cheap. I am sure others have done this and will chime in.

But the likelihood of SR primers being cheaper than .22’s seems unlikely. Having a dedicated platform to cover that eventuality might be a fun project though.

[Nobade]

Hard to beat an air rifle for that as well.

[P Flados]

Your "not a single shot" is probably taking a lot of good choices off of the table. Consider the following.

My 22 LR "equivalent" is a rimmed version of a 32 ACP in a stub tube contender.

At one point during the Obama years I realized that with my cast bullets, I could reload cheaper than buy 22s. However, my lead source (wheel weights) suddenly dried up and I decided that I needed a 22 LR equivalent gun that could handle really small bullets.

My first solution was a SP-101 in 327 along with a custom NLG 55 gr bullet mold. It worked ok, but the case was "too big" to be real happy with my mouse fart loads. All of the free space made for big velocity swings depending on powder position.

My next solution was to stub tube a 7.5" 30 cal (from a scrap 30-30 pull) for my TC. I tried 32 S&W short but the cases were too small for me to reload without fumbling a lot.

I deepened the chamber to try some 32 ACP. The gun shot good, but my 32 ACP brass was not fun to load. The case size was much better than the 32 shorts, but the rims were very inconsistent in size from brand to brand and generally smaller than I liked. So I made up a big batch of brass 32 ACP in length but with the same rim dimension as the 32 S&W Long.

With reloaded primers, 1.7 gr TG and a 55 gr bullet I get a great 890 fps load for offhand practice shooting at 30 ft. Last time I figured my out of pocket cost for the materials, it was like $1.80 per hundred if I include buying lead. With range scrap for lead the calculation drops closer to $1.05 per hundred. My current usage rate is about 1000 rounds per year for this gun.

The above load is not suitable for much more than making holes in paper. I have loaded heavier bullets that seemed to shoot fine. These would be effective at longer ranges.

Any break open rifle in something like 32 H&R, 30 carbine, 32-20, 327, or 30 Badger can make a great 22LR substitute. Going with 32 H&R, 327 or 30 Badger will be much better when it comes to sourcing a pile of brass. The 30/32s are probably more capable on game than 22 cal choices. The available mold selection for 30/32s is also much better.



Now if you forced me to pick a bolt gun to do a 22 LR equivalent, my first thought would be to get a gun with a 223 bolt face and convert it to a "30 Badger rimless". I would use a 30-30 pull as a barrel blank and would trim 223 brass to 38 SP length before running them through a 30 luger reloading die.

Next best choice would be a 300 BO bolt gun. For true 22 LR equivalent loads, the case is bigger than desired, but it would work.

An interesting idea similar to a 30 Badger rimless would be just to neck down 9mm brass to 30 cal. Getting it to feed good would be my worry.

[15meter]

I know you said no single shot rifles, but with jacketed bullets I've whacked prairie dogs @ 225+ yards with no problems with my Ruger #1 in 22 Hornet. And it shot cast better than it had a right to. Best of both worlds.

Had a buddy with a 77/22, he rechambered it to a K-Hornet, it shot very well(but not as good as my #1)

[Kestrel4k]

I concur with 223Rem being a decent back up for 22LR; my 223 bolt rifle is suppressed, but I did develop a nice 17HMR substitute load (~2500fps) for it w/ Red Dot.

As it was also stated above, it's really hard to compete w/ 22LR if you have to start with small rifle primers. Decent 22LR ammo is about $23/brick delivered right now (Aguila SV); if I was overly concerned with 22LR supply I would store a couple extra cases of that in a cool dry spot - should last for decades in storage.

[corbinace]

. Decent 22LR ammo is about $23/brick delivered right now (Aguila SV);.

Where are you seeing this please?

[Larry Gibson]

I've used a lot of sub sonic 22LR equivalent cast bullet loads in numerous 22 Hornet rifles and Contenders over the years for fun plinking and small game shooting. I've run the gamut of action types and never found one yet that didn't shoot well. I've found 3 different cast that serve the purpose well; 225438, 225462 and the 225415. The 225415 with it's flat meplat gets the job done on small game as good, if not better, than 22LR Standard or sub sonic HPs.

I load them over 1.9 to 2.1 gr of Bullseye to maintain subsonic velocities. With such loads in 22-26" barrels they are seemingly as "quiet' as 22LR standard velocity. With a suppressor they are quieter than my 20 and 22 cal pellet rifles.

In these days of shortages, it's the availability of 22LR and/or of SR/SP primers that is the problem.

[openbook]

To the other good suggestions I'll add the Savage 340 as a model to look for. Bolt-action with five-shot magazines, and can be had affordably. They usually have the 1-16 twist which is not ideal for your longer bullets--something to be aware of.

The classic (not the new version) 22 Bator bullet is said to work well in 1-16 twists, and at 55gr it would be ideal for 22 Hornet subsonic loads with power for small game. Other 55gr and up bullets, including notably the "new Bator," give trouble with the old-school 1-16 twist rifles.

[scottnc]

A bunch of good info there, thanks! I had done some trolling for cast bullet/powder input and one thing that came up was powder position sensitivity. A powder bulky per unit of weight was recommended. I was thinking a bullet in the 40-45g range, matching my LR bullets, flat nose, plain base. 1-16 seems universal . . . is that something of a given in 22 Hornet rifles? Is a 16 twist okay with lighter than 50g? I hadn't thought about a .223. I do have a couple sets of dies . . . I'll do a bit of comparing.

As for my preference for a magazine fed rifle, most of my small game hunting is squirrels over a dog. The pooch is out of TN, a young lady and a real gem of a squirrel dog. If you connect on the first shot you are good to go - but if a follow-up is needed fumbling with reloading a single shot increases the chance of loosing sight of your prey. With a dog below the grays really hug the tree far up in the canopy making them hard to locate, so it's best to never look away from the scope after a shot.

A very rainy day is on the weather menu for tomorrow, so I plan to hit up a couple neighbors to go investigate some used gun racks.

[Larry Gibson]

I have not found "powder positioning" to be a problem with small charges of Bullseye in the 22Hornet. Additionally, it appears you're shooting up at acute angles with the dog holding the squirrels in the tree. That, alone, automatically will position the powder consistently.

[P Flados]

As for my preference for a magazine fed rifle, most of my small game hunting is squirrels over a dog. The pooch is out of TN, a young lady and a real gem of a squirrel dog. If you connect on the first shot you are good to go - but if a follow-up is needed fumbling with reloading a single shot increases the chance of loosing sight of your prey. With a dog below the grays really hug the tree far up in the canopy making them hard to locate, so it's best to never look away from the scope after a shot.

The above explains the bolt action preference. For this type of use, small charges of any fast burning powder should work. At the bench, tilting the muzzle up before each shot is a good idea. For "load data", you really do not need much. Just work up/down as needed to end up at say 0.2 gr below where you get the sonic crack.

You describe a hunting style where you expect to be chasing 22 Hornet brass off of the ground in the woods. I went looking and found that several makers supply 22 Hornet brass but not Starline. Listed prices were not terrible ($0.50 - $1.00 per round), but no one had any in stock.

If I was doing this, I would consider painting / powder coating a small batch of "hunting brass" in a bright hi contrast color. The pressures for a sub load should be low so the paint / coating might hold up for at least a few firings.

I have had guns I wanted to shoot, but was hampered by brass cost / availability issues. I now have a strong preference for going out of my way to select choices that avoid the issue. I know a 300 BO with a subsonic 100 gr to 130 gr RNFP would be "less elegant" than a 22 Hornet, but darn it would be easy to source the gun, the brass and the mold.

[gloob]

Thinking about gearing up to use WW cast bullets in the 22 Hornet at sub-sonic velocities. Not for silencer use, I want a reloadable substitute for the 22LR for small game if rimfire ammo becomes hard to get or too $$. 50 yard max. Before heading out to investigate the used racks, what rifles should I look for. I'd prefer a bolt gun but not a single shot.

If cost matters, 223 can be downloaded. I think you'll come out ahead after figuring the extra grain of powder versus the life of Hornet cases.

Then there's the 22TCM, if you want to save money and have more fun in the reloading room, converting cheap 223 cases into 22TCM. Good excuse to add a neck turning tool, if you don't already have one. Seems to be only one rifle, though, from Rock Island.

[P Flados]

This post is for all of the "what about" guys more than the OP.

Just for comparison, I ran some ~990 fps loads through Quickload in a 16" gun to look at muzzle pressure. I set COAL for bullet seating at one bullet diameter.

5.7 x 28 FN, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 1.66 gr, 837 psi

22 Hornet, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 1.78 gr, 909 psi

22 TCM, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 1.85 gr, 941 psi

221, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 2.1 gr, 1119 psi

222, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 2.3 gr, 1266 psi

223, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 2.4 gr, 1330 psi


30 Luger, 113 gr Lee, HP-38, 2.62 gr, 588 psi (this approximates a 30 Badger rimless)

30 Luger, 130 gr Lyman, HP-38, 2.89 gr, 623 psi (this approximates a 30 Badger rimless)

300 BO, 113 gr Lee, HP-38, 3.24 gr, 848 psi

300 BO, 130 gr Lyman, HP-38, 3.55 gr, 903 psi


Just for grins,

32 ACP +++P, 113 gr Lee, HP-38, 2.16 gr, 387 psi

[Outer Rondacker]

Thinking about gearing up to use WW cast bullets in the 22 Hornet at sub-sonic velocities. Not for silencer use, I want a reloadable substitute for the 22LR for small game if rimfire ammo becomes hard to get or too $$. 50 yard max. Before heading out to investigate the used racks, what rifles should I look for. I'd prefer a bolt gun but not a single shot.

At current primer price a 22LR is still cheaper. But to answer your question. I would look for a HOWA.

[cwtebay]

This post is for all of the "what about" guys more than the OP.

Just for comparison, I ran some ~990 fps loads through Quickload in a 16" gun to look at muzzle pressure. I set COAL for bullet seating at one bullet diameter.

5.7 x 28 FN, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 1.66 gr, 837 psi

22 Hornet, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 1.78 gr, 909 psi

22 TCM, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 1.85 gr, 941 psi

221, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 2.1 gr, 1119 psi

222, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 2.3 gr, 1266 psi

223, 49 gr Lyman, HP-38, 2.4 gr, 1330 psi


30 Luger, 113 gr Lee, HP-38, 2.62, 588 psi (this approximates a 30 Badger rimless)

30 Luger, 130 gr Lyman, HP-38, 2.89, 623 psi (this approximates a 30 Badger rimless)

300 BO, 113 gr Lee, HP-38, 3.24 gr, 848 psi

300 BO, 130 gr Lyman, HP-38, 3.55, 903 psi


Just for grins,

32 ACP +++P, 113 gr Lee, HP-38, 2.16 gr, 387 psi

Interesting - I am assuming PSI = FPS?

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