PPC Revolvers

[StrawHat]

…

It started off as the Police Practical Pistol Course, but became less practical as the years passed with competitors trying to gain an edge with new bells and whistles. Seriously, how practical would it be to carry one of those ribbed, bull barreled revolvers on duty for 8-12 hours? Heavy! …

DG

DG,

You are correct, I would not willingly carry a full blown race revolver on duty. Nor did I ever see anyone do so. But, the Distinguished Combat Magnum revolver was brought out to win that leg of the competition and it did that well. I used a 6”, Model 686 and also a 4”, Model 686, in competition. I tried to carry the 4” on duty but after a month, went back to the 4”, K frame revolver. But, a lot of LEOs did carry the L frame for whatever perceived benefit.

…

The name of the DA revolver game is keeping the sights aligned while pressing the trigger cleanly. There's a lot of satisfaction to be found in developing that to a high level of proficiency using the "stock" combat gun that mainly differs from the full race gun in more weight up front and stock springs chosen for functional reliability under all conditions…

This is spot on! Master double action shooting and never look back.

Kevin

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Thanks--but don't get me wrong. I like the 586/686 revolvers a lot. I've never owned one, but have handled and fired a few rounds through them. Very nice, and certainly no harder to carry and deal with than an "N" frame S&W, which basically they are with a "K" frame grip. I carried a 6" Colt Mk. III .357 for several years, so a little extra weight and length doesn't bother me. Well--it didn't back then over 30 years ago. But the big bull barrels and full length ribs would be a bit different, and in addition to the extra weight a bit clumsy, I think.

Actually, I probably wasn't trying to make much of a point at all......it's just that every shooting game originates with friendly guys shooting stock firearms, whether it be PPC, steel silhouettes, skeet, whatever and gradually gets gadgetized by those seeking an edge over the other competitors/participants. So then you end up with classes and divisions, etc., and it gradually becomes beyond the ability of the ordinary guy to participate, and the nature of the entire thing changes. Another example would be the Cowboy Action game where softball reloads are used that don't mirror the reality of attempting to do the same thing will full house loads which would have been more prevalent in the "Old West." Or, so it seems to me.

Like I said, my experience was lots of years ago and I'm long obsolete and fossilized. This brings to mind a story which I've likely told before, about a friend named Jack F. He was a large man and I met him at the local PPC matches on coastal California. Back then outstanding shooting was still honored and there was a list called "The Governor's 20" that listed the 20 best pistol shots in the state. The guys on the list actually got to meet the Governor and shake his hand, kind of like a sports team today being invited to the White House. Today they aren't invited, probably aren't listed, and wouldn't want to shake the current Governor's hand anyway, but don't forget that Reagan was once Governor. Jack was always near the top of the list. His discipline was PPC and he used a "K" frame S&W that had a standard barrel which was 8 3/4" long. It had a full length shroud or tunnel along the top of the barrel from back sight to front sight, and that was his "edge".

I was always fascinated when watching him shoot the center out of the silhouette target's kill zone alongside another fellow who was also a friend and sort of an understudy of Jack's. It was just one large ragged hole, and was rarely decided by who might have had one flyer outside the center hole, but more often by measuring the size of the hole as there were rarely flyers and perfect scores were commonplace. He practiced 2-3 times a week, and this was made easy by the fact that he owned a reloading company that mainly, but not exclusively, reloaded .38 wadcutter ammo for competitions. He traveled about the state selling large quantities of the ammo to various police departments for their qualification and practice, and there were few PPC competitors that did not use his ammo. His shop was almost fully automated and he had one woman employee who just kept the hoppers filled and bagged the wadcutter reloads, 50 per little plastic bag. That freed him up to travel about selling and competing, and he tried to coordinate both activities. Excellent ammo, and I used it when I could. I still possess one unopened bag.

Well, continuing on, he was also a collector of antique Winchester lever action rifles. Many were rare and in pristine condition. One weekend I ran into him at the San Jose Gun Show and he had a table covered with his old rifles. I stopped to chat and he said, "Buy one of my rifles." I replied, "Jack, I couldn't even afford to pick one of those up and look at it." He responded, "Make me an offer-- you might be surprised." We chatted about some trivial stuff, then I moved on. About a month later his understudy friend told me that he had been suffering from terminal cancer. He had sold the reloading business, all the rifles, turned it into one bank check made out to his wife. He sat down at his desk and pulled the trigger on that same PPC revolver. I've always thought about him now and then, and miss him. He was one of those guys you meet as you travel through life who was exceptional in so many ways--- and a fine pistol shot.

DG

[YoungGun88]

Thanks--but don't get me wrong. I like the 586/686 revolvers a lot. I've never owned one, but have handled and fired a few rounds through them. Very nice, and certainly no harder to carry and deal with than an "N" frame S&W, which basically they are with a "K" frame grip. I carried a 6" Colt Mk. III .357 for several years, so a little extra weight and length doesn't bother me. Well--it didn't back then over 30 years ago. But the big bull barrels and full length ribs would be a bit different, and in addition to the extra weight a bit clumsy, I think.

Actually, I probably wasn't trying to make much of a point at all......it's just that every shooting game originates with friendly guys shooting stock firearms, whether it be PPC, steel silhouettes, skeet, whatever and gradually gets gadgetized by those seeking an edge over the other competitors/participants. So then you end up with classes and divisions, etc., and it gradually becomes beyond the ability of the ordinary guy to participate, and the nature of the entire thing changes. Another example would be the Cowboy Action game where softball reloads are used that don't mirror the reality of attempting to do the same thing will full house loads which would have been more prevalent in the "Old West." Or, so it seems to me.

Like I said, my experience was lots of years ago and I'm long obsolete and fossilized. This brings to mind a story which I've likely told before, about a friend named Jack F. He was a large man and I met him at the local PPC matches on coastal California. Back then outstanding shooting was still honored and there was a list called "The Governor's 20" that listed the 20 best pistol shots in the state. The guys on the list actually got to meet the Governor and shake his hand, kind of like a sports team today being invited to the White House. Today they aren't invited, probably aren't listed, and wouldn't want to shake the current Governor's hand anyway, but don't forget that Reagan was once Governor. Jack was always near the top of the list. His discipline was PPC and he used a "K" frame S&W that had a standard barrel which was 8 3/4" long. It had a full length shroud or tunnel along the top of the barrel from back sight to front sight, and that was his "edge".

I was always fascinated when watching him shoot the center out of the silhouette target's kill zone alongside another fellow who was also a friend and sort of an understudy of Jack's. It was just one large ragged hole, and was rarely decided by who might have had one flyer outside the center hole, but more often by measuring the size of the hole as there were rarely flyers and perfect scores were commonplace. He practiced 2-3 times a week, and this was made easy by the fact that he owned a reloading company that mainly, but not exclusively, reloaded .38 wadcutter ammo for competitions. He traveled about the state selling large quantities of the ammo to various police departments for their qualification and practice, and there were few PPC competitors that did not use his ammo. His shop was almost fully automated and he had one woman employee who just kept the hoppers filled and bagged the wadcutter reloads, 50 per little plastic bag. That freed him up to travel about selling and competing, and he tried to coordinate both activities. Excellent ammo, and I used it when I could. I still possess one unopened bag.

Well, continuing on, he was also a collector of antique Winchester lever action rifles. Many were rare and in pristine condition. One weekend I ran into him at the San Jose Gun Show and he had a table covered with his old rifles. I stopped to chat and he said, "Buy one of my rifles." I replied, "Jack, I couldn't even afford to pick one of those up and look at it." He responded, "Make me an offer-- you might be surprised." We chatted about some trivial stuff, then I moved on. About a month later his understudy friend told me that he had been suffering from terminal cancer. He had sold the reloading business, all the rifles, turned it into one bank check made out to his wife. He sat down at his desk and pulled the trigger on that same PPC revolver. I've always thought about him now and then, and miss him. He was one of those guys you meet as you travel through life who was exceptional in so many ways--- and a fine pistol shot.

DG

Oof, that's definitely a loss, thank you for the story full of memories!
Yes, I'm sure that many(maybe most) of the 2A community would not have anything positive to say about our current governor of "The ONCE Golden State".
I like to remind Reagan fans that not only did he sign the Mulford Act, FOPA(with Hughes Amendment), backed the Brady Bill and blanket Assault Weapons Ban of 1994.
He also gave amnesty to many border hoppers whose family tree has turned the state perpetually blue, voting wise. A tick that has only dug in deeper since.

Politics aside, many still call this home, despite the increasingly draconian leverage the state has over retailers and people simply wanting to live life with the same opportunities our ancestors once had. My grandparents both came to California from out of state, my grandfather having been born in New York, then moving to Texas as a young lad, then to California. His father, working in the retail business, moved westward with the wife and son in tow. My grandfather saw 10 schools between 1st grade and his graduation from high school. My grandmother, born in Illinois to Swedish immigrants, moved to California in the early 1930s due to her father being in the construction business. Pasadena has certainly changed from that timeframe. My father has lived in LA his entire life, and I have made it a resolution to record his memories of "The California HE knew and grew up in" so I can have a reference to compare to my own upbringing.

I found out that a classmate of mine from high school recently took his life. Not sure how, but left two small children and a wife behind. Had not seen or spoken with him since graduation, but certainly caused me to take pause and assess some things in my own life. Here's a round for you, Todd!

Back to PPC revolvers. As I mentioned in a prior reply here, I seem to have come into things late, typically after they've seen their heyday and grandeur. I don't think I would ever be interested in competition shooting such as PPC, it would be merely for the enjoyment of shooting a highly tuned sports car of a revolver. Plus, supporting a pistolsmith whose craftsmanship can be held for many years to come. But that's me, and being able to shoot 'one ragged hole' out of a tuned/dialed revolver offhand would be more for personal satisfaction than earning money from winning.

-Dan

[Bigslug]

It's really a matter of satisfying one's personal kinks.

I'm with Der Gebirgsjager on "gamer guns". My game years ago was NRA Highpower Rifle, and in it, I saw a major trend away from the original intent - proficiency with a standard service rifle - toward extreme tweaks of the equipment for optimized performance within a strictly-defined course of fire. The practicality of such equipment outside of that course of fire is pretty questionable. Usually when that equipment failed on the line, the failure was due to the components added or adjusted to gain that razor's edge advantage under match conditions. Stuff too light, stuff too tight, stuff too loose. I often wonder if the failures cost more points than the "sexy" gained

I'm REALLY cynical on that stuff when it comes to handguns, where it's the shooter that's the broken component in more of the misses than anything else. Bad technique sells a lot of "Match Grade" Kool Aid.

[StrawHat]

When I competed in registered PPC matches, maximum barrel length was 6”. I could use my S&W Model 25-2 in non registered matches but it would be disqualified from Registered Matches because it was 1/2” too long. My Davis revolver got me into the top 20 but I never broke into the Governors 10. I still had a lot of fun and maybe, I miss it.

I always enjoyed when one of my close competitors found a new gimmick or gadget. That meant they were not concentrating on the basics. Sure my Davis had a heavy barrel, but more importantly, it was rifled to better shoot the 150 grain wadcutter bullet over 2.8 grains of Bullseye. The S&W factory rifling was set to handle the 160 grain bullet at magnum velocities.

Kevin

[Outpost75]

Bill Davis, Jim Clark, and Bob Collins all used ten-inch twist 9mm barrels. The fast-twist barrels will stabilize wadcutter ammo to 100 yards or more.

[Ed K]

All custom work is heavily discounted when sold used - even more so when the particular discipline is in decline. Of all custom handguns seen in the last 20 years I don't know if I've ever seen anything marked down as much as PPC guns. Highly recommend you look in that direction - even if you have to pay a little to tweak it in the direction you want to go.

[Green Frog]

All custom work is heavily discounted when sold used - even more so when the particular discipline is in decline. Of all custom handguns seen in the last 20 years I don't know if I've ever seen anything marked down as much as PPC guns. Highly recommend you look in that direction - even if you have to pay a little to tweak it in the direction you want to go.

^^^ THIS!^^^
I was thinking the same thing as I read this thread. Unless you can find someone who collects the work of that ‘smith, or that style of specialty guns, any custom gun you have built is likely to be a money loser. OTOH, if you want one and can find it used, it can be a real bargain! Probably the best example of this is the PPC gun. It has about the same sized market as the one for ebony handled buggy whips or high end early pinball machines… they can be valuable, but finding that right buyer is tough!

I was fortunate to find a collector of guns by Fred Schmidt when I sold my full house short cylinder PPC gun. I loved shooting it, but PPC was pretty much dead locally, so away it went. One of the few guns I don’t regret selling.

Froggie

[corbinace]

All custom work is heavily discounted when sold used - even more so when the particular discipline is in decline. Of all custom handguns seen in the last 20 years I don't know if I've ever seen anything marked down as much as PPC guns. Highly recommend you look in that direction - even if you have to pay a little to tweak it in the direction you want to go.

That is why I was able to get my Mod 10. I really wanted a nice S&W trigger pull and it seemed to be the least expensive way to do so, was to purchase this unwanted PPC revolver.

[Thom_44]

Its hard to get a used PPC revolver, did just find a Davis 19-3 for 1100 at a Cabelas in an online gun auction thing.

Many will tell you that you can get a used PPC revoolver for under 800$, but in real life you only get offers of 1000 to 1500$ in your private messages from those same guys.