Hodgdon Powder

[TNsailorman]

I received a message from Hodgdon a few minutes ago about a 1 lb. bottle of H110 I had put in my cart but did not complete the buying of it. They said I had forgot to complete the purchase. I replied just now to them that $37.97 was way too high for a pound of H110 and that $44.00 plus hazmat was just ridiculous. That would make a final price of around $107.00 for a 1lb. bottle of H110. I also told them that I was finished with buying their powder and that from now on the only buying of powder from me will come from estate sales or friends getting rid of un-needed powder. It is time to say enough is enough. Rant over, james

[MUSTANG]

I have begun to wonder if the Big Powder/Primer companies have intentianally launched "Direct to Customer" concepts to cut out the Middle Person and Distributers as a means of keeping more of the "Profits" by getting retail price - with their Over Degreed College MBA's (who have never had a real job) advocating that it is a better approach; not realizing the cost to Retail Customers for Hazmat and Shipping.

Can you say BUDLIGHT ?

I find it hard to believe that "Production Costs" for a pound of powder have increased so as to justify a Retail cost increase of 100% to 200% in 3 years.

[high standard 40]

Some factors to consider.
I worked at a sporting goods wholesale warehouse for a few years so I have something of an understanding of the relationship between manufacturers, wholesalers, and retailers. Manufacturers for the most part will not sell online at a price less that their suggested retail price. To do so would be undercutting their wholesalers and retailers. This would be very bad for the manufacturers because it would remove any incentive for wholesalers and retailers to stock their products. They would be in direct competition with each other. As far as the hazmat fee, that's a government issue and beyond the wholesaler's ability to bypass.

[trapper9260]

It is best to buy from a local store that way you will have to pay for the hazmat fee . Just that you need to drive around to find what you want .

[Pereira]

I have never bought powder or primers online, all of mine has come from local vendors.

RP

[trapper9260]

I have never bought powder or primers online, all of mine has come from local vendors.

RP

Same with me . I stay local because of I will not pay the extra fee. It is not worth it . I have enough places that I can work around with.

[dverna]

There is no "one size fits all".

If you do not use a lot of powder and primers, the LGS might be the right decision.

I buy in bulk, from online vendors and it has always provided me with significant savings. The last powder I bought at the LGS was a pound of Blue Dot for a project. I have not purchased primers at a LGS for over 25 years except for one brick of "off brand" primers I wanted to test before making a bulk purchase.

[TNsailorman]

Finding a local store than has any powder at all is a problem. The store I usually frequent does not have powder on display. They keep their ammo in the back and only people buying guns have the option of buying right now. That may change but is SOP right now. I do understand that. james

[Froogal]

I used to buy ALL my powder and primers from a couple of different vendors at local gun shows. One of those vendors must have retired, and the other guy still shows up but can no longer get ANY powder or primers. There are NO gun stores within reasonable driving distance, so I now buy what I need from on-line vendors. That is my only option.

[MUSTANG]

Post #1 focuses on a Powder Company, and I believe Post #2 remains valid. I have NOT bought Powder or Primers online since the early Obama Presidency. Shipping and Hazmat fees added to the every day price (or even the Sales Prices) to the "Direct to Public Sales" is constantly much much higher than local stores; particularly when Bulk Sales are restricted to one or a handful of units.

I have been fortunate to have invested in Powder and Primer purchases from both On-Line sources pre-Obama, and from Local Stores (particularly during price reductions or sales). My powder holdings are currently adequate; but I have had to resort to re-manufacturing my own Large Rifle Primers due to my shooting desires and the current Cost Models from both On-Line and Local Retail. As I have watched the local stores driven out of the Market over the last 40 years by "Big-Box" stores; I choose to purchase local when I can. Grew up in a depressed area where being Frugal was a necessity - not a choice. When the ACTUAL COST for an item is dramatically higher due to Shipping and Hazmat compared to local purchase - for me it is a no brainer (either that or "Make my Own".

Thinking of this Spring experimenting with the home grown Powder Formulas recorded in the writings of the WW-II era as the velocities achieved are in the same range as what we are accustomed to for cast Rifle and Pistol boolits. Why? Because the costs from Wall Street and Internationally owned/controlled companies are escalating through the roof, coupled with dramatic escalation costs for shipping, and government induced ever increasing price additions such as HazMat fees. The manufacturers/Large Vendors seek to exploit the "LAWS" of market forces I learned over 50 years ago (Prices set at whatever the Market will Bare), but it is often ignored that the Purchaser gets a choice too as the can seek alternate sources or solutions if they are Frugal or constrained in their $$$$. For me; Post #1 is an indication of why myself and a few others are moving to find alternate solutions.

[deces]

Post #1 home grown Powder Formulas recorded in the writings of the WW-II era

Tell us more about this!

[Bmi48219]

I will go to great lengths to find the best final all-inclusive price. That said I think it’s one of those ‘they got you coming or going’ scenarios. On line sale prices from places like MidSouth are usually better until you factor in shipping and / or hazmat. Local brick and mortar stores charge more per unit but can spread the shipping and hazmat out over their larger order. The extra $ or 2 they get for 100 primers more than covers shipping and hazmat. They also have higher operating costs to cover.

[MUSTANG]

Apologies for the Thread Drift. I will be developing a Post/Thread in Spring when I begin to actually attempt to do some of this. I acknowledge my knowledge is very low in this area; but will attempt to expand it. Note: Some of this information appears to be showing up in the Black Powder Thread.

deces:

I am in the reading, researching, collecting references, and contemplating future testing stage. I got started down this path of thought and future experimenting while reading PRIMERS for Small Arms Cartridges by . https://www.aardvarkreloading.com/re...%20Oelberg.pdf

The Powder discussion begins on page 32. There are discussions on a variety of "POWDERS" that start with modified Black Powder and then other chemical mixtures for slower Home Brewed Powders along with some of the testing performed at that time.


BC PROPELLANT POWDER - SEMI-SMOKELESS is made from:
Potassium Nitrate KNO3 3 grams (46.3 grains)
Lead Nitrate Pb(NO3)2 3 grams (46.3 grains)
Barium Nitrate Ba(NO3)2 2 grams (30.86 grains)
Liquid glue 0.250 grams (20 drops)
Carbon (Willow Charcoal) 1.250 grams (19.3 grains)

A14 PROPELLANT POWDER – SMOKELESS is made from:
Ammonium Nitrate NH4NO3 7.5 grams (115.74 grains)
Potassium Nitrate KNO3 4.0 grams (61.73 grains)
Lead Nitrate Pb(NO3)2 4.0 grams (61.73 grains)
Hydrocellulose C12H22O11 3.4 grams (52.47 grains)

Experimentation will be needed as references to A14 seems to be listed as A4 or A3, or B4 later in their Testing results. These apparent disconnects or lack of formulas for those powder derivations are indications of why I need to do a lot of research, test concept development, contemplation, and then testing before I actually go down this path.

Thread Diversion Out.

[dverna]

I went to the Hodgdon site and entered what would be a typical order for me:

8 lbs of W231
8 lbs of CFE 223 (1 lb size as they are out of 8 lb jugs)
8 lbs of 4064
8 lbs of Varget

32 lbs of powder delivered for $1415. Comes to $44.22/lb.

I am not saying that is a good deal, but it isn't bad either. And Varget is not a cheap choice $391!!!

Powder Valley, for a similar order, came to $42.06/lb. But every powder came in 8 lb'ers so it was a bit cheaper. I wanted to see how bad Hodgdon is after a few comments here.

If you expect to do much shooting in the next 10 years, 32 pounds of powder is a small investment. I doubt prices will ever drop much under $45 at your LGS so go online and stock up NOW if you are low. Waiting for your friends to die off is plan too...but they may be thinking the same about you...LOL

[35 Rem]

I buy most of my powder on line also. There just isn't a good local store that will stock everything I want and if they don't have it all, I still have to go on line to buy what they don't have which makes the Hazmat charge add even more per pound to the cost. To make it effective you need to order at least 2 of the 8 lb cans. If you have a friend who is willing to group an order to split the Hazmat that always helps. I've done that with several people over the years. Sometimes it might still be worthwhile to go local is if you want to try a new powder and only want 1 lb for testing. I wish there was a good local gun shop that had a full stock of loading components that I could support but don't know of one. I grew up about 5 miles from one of the best and miss it all the time.

[Kai]

Not to be a SA but as they say, Reality Sucks!!

[jdgabbard]

Yeah, I'm not buying any powders until the price comes down. I have enough to keep me going for a while... My biggest problem is I would prefer to buy locally to avoid hazmat fees for a relatively small amount of powder (I consider #4 & #8 orders to be small orders in the grand scheme of things). But the reality is that nobody in the area that I'm aware of doesn't charge like they pay a hazmat fee for each pound. Seriously, some places are selling powder for nearly $70/lb. That's ludicrous. So I would rather go ahead and buy powder online... I'd drive to powder valley, but they're just far enough away that I wouldn't save any money driving there. Primers have finally gotten down to about $70/brick, which I still think is about $30 too high, but within the realm of doable - at least as a temporary small quantity cost of loading...

Point being, I get there was a supply/demand issue 3-4 years ago. But there isn't a supply problem anymore. We've been dealing with these shortages for 15 years (2008), and the manufacturers haven't done a dang thing about scaling up production for the exponential increase in shooting sports. They're going to keep it up and price the consumer out of their market.

[Shawlerbrook]

Problem here in Central nys is that any lgs is an endangered species and finding one with a decent amount of reloading components is extinct. I buy online during free hazmat deals and luckily have been well supplied. And dverna is correct that even when I can find powder locally at a shop or show it is not cheaper than waiting for a free hazmat deal online. Sad, but true !

[elmacgyver0]

My advice, for what it's worth, is to jump on any kind of deal that seems halfway reasonable.
I doubt if things in ammo and components will ever get much better.
If it does great, but with things the way they are, I just don't know.

[dverna]

I suggested in another thread one of our younger members think long and hard about buying more toys and instead focus on establishing what calibers he needs and working towards a 20 year supply of components.

When Trump “loses” again next year, I fear this country will be in for a rough ride. It may a long rough ride.

I am a hoarder by nature. Even back in the good old days, I always bought more components than I needed. Only a fool will not learn from what we have gone through. As I posted above, the current cost of less than $45/lb for powder is decent price. If anyone thinks a year from now it will be $35/lb they must believe in the Easter Bunny too.