powder-through dies that are like Lyman 'M' die

[jmac2112]

Happy New Year! May it be even better than 2023....

I'm currently loading 9mm on a Dillon XL650 with a Mr. Bullet Feeder attachment. The powder funnel that comes with the bullet feeder is better than the Dillon funnel in that it creates a "ledge" for the bullet to sit on, just like a Lyman 'M' die or an NOE die. My only complaint is that I wish the expander part of the die was longer. Sometimes I load 147 grain bullets, and it's hard to avoid swaging the base without a good expander die. I used to use one, but now that I have the Mr. Bullet Feeder, there aren't enough stations on my press.

Anyway, does anyone know of a powder funnel/powder-through die that would fit the bill? Or has anyone tried modifying an existing funnel? Seems like it wouldn't be too hard with a lathe.

Thanks!

John

[G W Wade]

I bought one from Photo Escape. Available in .357 or .358 Uniqetex alsome sells a similar unit Happy New Year GW

[G W Wade]

Sorry! UniqueTek, Inc GW

[jmac2112]

Thanks! Looks like the one offered by UniqueTek for .357 or .358 is manufactured by Photo Escape also. There's also one offered by UniqueTek called "Custom Powder Funnel" that seems to be the same thing, only maybe it's for .355/.356 bullets (I'm just guessing since it doesn't say). In any case, thanks for the reply!

[jmac2112]

One more question. Looking at the picture of the UniqueTek/Photo Escape die, it looks to me like the expander part of the die is pretty short, and it's the larger diameter part that is much longer than usual (the part that creates the "ledge" for the bullet to sit on). I'm I interpreting that correctly? If so, that seems completely backwards.

Here is a link to this die on the Photo Escape site (much better picture):

https://www.photoescapeinc.com/products/9htc-ptu.html

[G W Wade]

No sure just how your looking at the picture, BUT the larger part you mentioned is the expander. The bell is at the start of the tapered section. GW

[jmac2112]

Maybe I have my terminology wrong. What I think of as the "expander" part of the die is the part that first enters the case and is a smaller diameter than the bullet (usually something like .353"). The second section that enters the case has a larger diameter than the bullet (around .357-.358) and forms a "ledge" that the bullet sits on before it is seated. Some dies of this type (Lyman 'M' die, for example) have a long "expander" section followed by a short second section. The Unique Tek die seems to do the opposite. Maybe I am misunderstanding its function, and it's not supposed to act like a 'M' die, but in that case I don't know why there are two visibly different sections.

I ran across another die that looks interesting and is configured the way I described above:

https://lousgunwork.com/M-Neck-Expan...wder-Dies.html

[gloob]

https://www.photoescapeinc.com/produ...dcutter38.html
Maybe one of these would work... after it is shortened to the length for your bullets with an angle grinder.

[jmac2112]

Interesting, thanks for the idea! Or maybe this will be my excuse for getting a lathe....

[jetinteriorguy]

On my 550 I use a Lee Pro Auto Disc in conjunction with NOE powder through expanders. For pistol loading it’s so easy and reliable, I just ream a cavity to drop the powder to the same amount of loads I’ve previously established. I use the same setup on my Lee turret press as well. I only load 9mm on the Dillon and .38sp, .357mag, and .41mag on the turret. I mark the custom sized discs and keep the appropriate disc in the bins of loaded ammo to keep them straight, but I always double check the disc with a scale every time I start to make sure I haven’t mixed them up.

[jmac2112]

I thought NOE stopped making the powder through expanders. I doubt that I could make those work with the current setup on my 650, but it's good to know they exist. Thanks!

[jetinteriorguy]

I thought NOE stopped making the powder through expanders. I doubt that I could make those work with the current setup on my 650, but it's good to know they exist. Thanks!

Apparently initially they had some issues to work out but now they have fixed whatever that was and are making them again. One issue I ran into was some of my older Lee powder through dies would not fit the NOE expanders, so I wound up ordering some die bodies from NOE. I’m assuming this may have been part of the initial problems. My recommendation to keep things simple is to just order the complete setup with the die from NOE, this will avoid any frustration and the money I would have saved on paying shipping on multiple orders would almost have paid the additional cost of the dies anyway.

[jmac2112]

By the way, I contacted Alex, the guy who makes the Photo Escape powder through expander, and got some clarification on how it is meant to be used. It's basically like the NOE powder through expander EXCEPT that the "second stage" (the larger diameter section) is really long. In other words, the bullet is going to sit way down in that expanded part of the case prior to seating, and when you seat the bullet you're only pushing it in about 1/32" (according to Alex). To me that seems backwards, but I've seen a number of positive reviews, so I went ahead and ordered one. I won't be able to bring myself to use it exactly as intended, however. 1/32" doesn't seem like enough to provide a reliable grip on the bullet, so I'll shoot for at least 1/16."

[pull the trigger]

Thanks for posting the photos escape link, just bought one as the Dillon unit sticks down a lot too. One of the reviews said it helped a lot. Can't wait to try it. Thanks again

[jmac2112]

No problem! Mine just arrived today, so I haven't tried it out. It seems to be the perfect length for typical 125 grain bullets. For longer bullets I would ideally like something that went further down.

[GWS]

These RCBS versions that fit in Uniflows and Hornady powder measures are what I use......work pretty dang well.



I believe the purpose is to stick 'em straight temporarily until the next progressive station to the seater, and the 1/16" has been plenty even for the long rifle bullets, I've used regular "M" dies for. (not powder-thru) RCBS include such regular dies in their tube rifle bullet feeders in .223 and .308 and they work super as well. Picture of the rifle tool below:



You can see the "M" step on the expander (part on the far left)

[jmac2112]

Good to know, thanks!

[oley55]

No problem! Mine just arrived today, so I haven't tried it out. It seems to be the perfect length for typical 125 grain bullets. For longer bullets I would ideally like something that went further down.

Almost a month now do you have any feedback reports for us? Did you get the HTC version for cast n coated bullets? I am hoping these will work with my PC'd boolits.

[jmac2112]

Yep, I got the HTC version, and so far I am pleased with the results. As a bit of background, I was getting lousy accuracy with my 125 grain TC Blue Bullets (special order .356 diameter), with groups in the 4-4.5" range at 25 yards (benched). I was using the Mr. Bullet Feeder powder funnel on my Dillon powder measure. Using the Photo Escape die in the Dillon powder measure, I got groups averaging 2.5".

I've also been experimenting with using a .359 x .355 NOE expander plug (solid type), and the results have been exactly the same in terms of group size. The downside is that I have to expand as a separate step unless I want to get the new NOE powder-through plugs and use them with my Lee Auto Drum powder measure. The only real advantage there would be that the NOE plugs go deeper, so they would probably work better with longer bullets like 147 grain.

I still find it weird on the Photo Escape die that the first "stage" of the expander is about half as long as the second "stage." The first stage enters the case first and is the part that allows for tension to hold the bullet in place. It works all right for 125 grain bullets, but with anything shorter than that you'd have to be very careful not to insert the expander too deep for fear of ending up with no tension at all. I must be missing something, but I really think the length of the two stages should be reversed.

[oley55]

I've also been experimenting with using a .359 x .355 NOE expander plug (solid type), and the results have been exactly the same in terms of group size. The downside is that I have to expand as a separate step...

I have been using the .359x.355 NOE expanders as well but was hoping the Photo Escape .358" powder thru would eliminate the extra step/s.