Very low recoil 12ga buckshot loads?

[Blood Trail]

This may help. They run fine in my Tac-14

https://youtu.be/gDuK2RkAxU8?feature=shared


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[W.R.Buchanan]

Leon: What kind of Roll Crimper did you use on those shells? You got a really nice Radius on the front of the hull which will help with feeding in Pumps and S/A's. I like it! I also finish Fold Crimped Hulls that flare out a little with a Roll Crimper but Mine don't produce as nice a Radius as what I saw in your Video.

Randy

[HWooldridge]

That looks like the crimper that BPI sells. I have one and it does a good job.

[Blood Trail]

Leon: What kind of Roll Crimper did you use on those shells? You got a really nice Radius on the front of the hull which will help with feeding in Pumps and S/A's. I like it! I also finish Fold Crimped Hulls that flare out a little with a Roll Crimper but Mine don't produce as nice a Radius as what I saw in your Video.

Randy

I used a Gaep OTP


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[W.R.Buchanan]

Many People don't understand that better looking ammo shoots better than crappy looking ammo. I am constantly looking for ways to improve mine and others should be doing this too. It is just part of Craftsmanship called "Attention to Detail."

I load a lot of Winchester Universals for my 3 gun shoots. They are laying everywhere at our range and I can get 1-2 reloads out of them and then let them go. The hulls invariably Flare out at the top edge of the hull when reloaded. That's cuz they came that way in the first place, but it gets worse on the second and third closing of the Fold Crimp. I usually run them thru my current Roll Crimper on the mill to put a Radius on the Crimp which makes them feed better in repeating Shotguns like Pumps and S/A's. It does OK but the one you used makes a bigger radius. Gotta get one!

Randy

[Blood Trail]

Many People don't understand that better looking ammo shoots better than crappy looking ammo. I am constantly looking for ways to improve mine and others should be doing this too. It is just part of Craftsmanship called "Attention to Detail."

I load a lot of Winchester Universals for my 3 gun shoots. They are laying everywhere at our range and I can get 1-2 reloads out of them and then let them go. The hulls invariably Flare out at the top edge of the hull when reloaded. That's cuz they came that way in the first place, but it gets worse on the second and third closing of the Fold Crimp. I usually run them thru my current Roll Crimper on the mill to put a Radius on the Crimp which makes them feed better in repeating Shotguns like Pumps and S/A's. It does OK but the one you used makes a bigger radius. Gotta get one!

Randy

Thanks Randy! Gaep has the BN series (I use the BN2) for finishing fold crimps and the OTPnfor roll crimps only.

Here’s a two loaded hulls. Leftre finished crimp. Right: finished with the BN2.


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[savage308]

I have the rem tac14dm which is mag fed and use a win universal hull,15gr. Titewad,cb 0178-12 wad, 17 #4 buck, 8 point fold crimp. Very good pattern

[W.R.Buchanan]

Leon: that round on the left is exactly what I'm talking about !

Randy

[Plate plinker]

Agree that is a nice looking crimp.

[faustus]

Update:

Ok, so I finally got around to testing that very low recoil 12ga buckshot load.

With the 4 pellets only weighing 220 grains ( 0.5 oz ) I feared that that load would just be a blooper and only doing a puffff instead of a boom.

But, those loads went boom …. and I was surprised with their effectiveness.

So, I shot them at 20 yards …. and the pattern out of a Modified choke was around 8 inches …. all 4 pellets stayed within a circle of a small pie plate at 20 yards. For penetration at 20 yards, all pellets cleanly penetrated (traversed) a ½ inch plywood board.

Recoil? There was hardly any recoil …. I was smiling!

Unfortunately, I don’t have the velocity of this load …. but pressure should be way way below max pressure.

Anyhow, I think I now have the perfect load and to initiate new shooters or kids (youngsters) to the 12ga.

Recoil should even be less that a 410 buckshot load. A 12ga gun is normally much heavier than a 410 gun. And the four #00 buckshot pellets weight less than the standard 4 or 5 pellets of #000 in most 410 buckshot loads.

Here is the load data:

1. Cheddite 3” hull
2. Chedditte 209 primer
3. Powder: 17.1 grains of Clays
4. BPGS gas seal
5. PT1215 wad
6. 2x 20ga .125 Nitro Cards inside the wad
7. 4x #00 Buckshot pellets (stacked in 2s)
8. Buffer
9. Clear overshot disk
10. Roll crimp

And for those that are interested …. here are the reference loads from the Cheddite Manual and the Advantages Manual.

-------------------------------------------
Cheddite Hull
Cheddite Primer 209
Clays Powder – 19.2 grains
PT1215 Wad
Fold Crimp
#8 shot (492 grains, 1 1/8 oz)
PSI 9900
FPS 1200
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Cheddite Hull
Cheddite Primer 209
Clays Powder – 20 grains
PT1215 Wad
Fold Crimp
#2 Buckshot x 16 (464 grains)
PSI 9100
FPS 1255
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Cheddite Hull
Cheddite Primer 209
Clays Powder – 23 grains
PT1205 Wad
Fold Crimp
#2 Buckshot x 12 (348 grains)
PSI 9200
FPS 1520
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Cheddite Hull
Cheddite Primer 209
Clays Powder – 26 grains
PT1205 Wad
18FW20 felt wad in base
Fold Crimp
#8 shot (300 grains)
PSI 10500
FPS 1715
-------------------------------------------

Hope this helps….

[sargenv]

Another powder that would likely work well is choose your hull and try Bullseye 16.5 to 17.5 gr. I once used this data for some 7/8 ounce loads. The wad was seated too deeply and the crimp dished in and the pellets all leaked out. I wanted the hull back so I took it out and expected it to be a blooper. Surprised the heck out of me when the wad left the barrel with a loud "POP!". Since this load is for 7/8 ounce and it is a book load from Alliant, 4 x 00 buck should move along quickly since the payload is about a 1/2 ounce.

[longbow]

Interesting results! Thanks for researching and posting. I think I'll give that a try.

Longbow

[Earl54]

Why are you working with 3 inch shells? I would think that since you are going with a less than standard payload and as a result having to fill up empty space you would want to use 2 3/4 inch shells to get more capacity. Besides that point I've never used any powder in a shotgun other than Red Dot and Unique so can't comment on your specific load. However, my favorite load was 16 grains of Red Dot with 1 ounce of shot for a low recoil load. The book said something like 1,200 ft/sec. I would think 4 pellets of 00 would probably weigh no more than 1/2 ounce so velocity would be higher. Could probably easily drop that powder charge a couple of grains to compensate.

Like yourself, I tried the shorty shells, both 2" and 1 7/8" with less than satisfactory results in several pump guns. I got the little Rubber adapter that you plug into the bottom of the receiver which made them work fairly well but I wanted something for defensive use and I just can't trust a snap in piece of rubber for that. If you are wanting to use them for recreational shooting only and aren't aware of such a device I can try to find the box it came in to give you manufacturer contact info.

Mossberg 590S Shockwave will also shoot the short shells as well as the normal 2 3/4 and 3 inch. I have 2 and after 100rnds in each gun I am happy with mine.

[Hamish]

Thanks Randy! Gaep has the BN series (I use the BN2) for finishing fold crimps and the OTPnfor roll crimps only.

Here’s a two loaded hulls. Leftre finished crimp. Right: finished with the BN2.


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Thank you to both of you, this is huge to me. Many moons ago I recognized square tops and belled tops were finicky in the pumps, usually burned them up is the SxS or the O/U. I *really* don’t mind adding a step to get a nice taper like that pictured.