358-429 versions

[murf205]

This is the one that shoots better than the 173 gr Keith, for me any way. A LOT better.

[20:1]

This is the one that shoots better than the 173 gr Keith, for me any way. A LOT better.

I miss LBT. I have perhaps a half dozen of Verals molds. Had I know more about the future, I'd have many times that number. And I always favored the 180 LFN, I took my first handgun deer with one

[lotech]

I miss LBT. I have perhaps a half dozen of Verals molds. Had I know more about the future, I'd have many times that number. And I always favored the 180 LFN, I took my first handgun deer with one

I've had the plainbase version of that bullet for about twenty years. I've never gotten decent accuracy with it in the .38 Special. It does much better in the .357 if pushed hard, but it's never been among my most accurate moulds designs.

[Hickok]

One thing I can say about the #358429 (mine has the round lube grooves) is the greater the distance, the better it groups. Some cast and jacketed bullets may beat it at 25 yards on a target, but as the range gets longer, the Keith SWC seems to out shoot the others.

Using a S&W 686 6" it has grouped 6-7 inch groups from a bagged rest @ 100 yards for 5 shots for me,...(on a good day!!). I know others can do better, just my experience.

Others boolits/bullets (usually lighter and shorter) that out-group the 358429 @ 25 yds, seem to get wandering before they make it to 50 yards.

[fivegunner]

Good post, I have and used most of the bullets spoken here, but I have to say the Lyman 358156 is the most accurate out of my handgun`s I know it`s a pain putting on the gas check, but well worth it to me.

[murf205]

Gas checking is a PITA but the results usually are worth the trouble. I am a plain base guy normally but I've never had worse results when gas checking.

[20:1]

Gas checking is a PITA but the results usually are worth the trouble. I am a plain base guy normally but I've never had worse results when gas checking.

Gas check expanders take the fight out of them. I don't mind the expense, at $35.00/K it's like 3.5 cents each. 357 JHPs are around 20 cents ea.

[fecmech]

I've shot multiple thousands of 358429 Lymans from a 4 cav I bought in the late 60's. My mold had the round lube groove and when matched with max loads of 296/H110 six shot benched 50yd groups ran 2-2.5". My 94 Winchester .357 would do 3-4" 100 yd groups with the same loads. It was not at it's best with mild .38spl loads. My $.02

[20:1]

Originals from the 1920s are rare indeed. If I read my Keith correctly, the production molds differed from the prototypes that Keith originally ordered. Keith mentioned that when Ideal/Lyman started cataloging his design that the went to the rounded grease groove and reduced the diameter of the front driving band, What he didn't specify was if these changes took place with the initial production, or if it was done as a running change later on. Also, the original Keith molds would have dated back to the late 1920s and so would have been the old style single cavity designs with one-piece handles. The interchangeable block system dates back to the 1940s so if someone has un-vented Keith designs that aren't one piece they're probably a re-release or special run of some sort. I have two nearly identical SC 358429 un-vented molds, one has a round groove and the other is square. To further confound things Ideals manuals and handbooks from the late 40s and early 50s show pictures of 358429 with square grooves only. Finding a fully original 358429 from the thirties would be the coup of a lifetime. The 358429 first showed up in Ideal manuals in 1931 so anything is possible, but it looks like they were cut in the one-piece mold design.

Well, I appear to have gotten my hands on some bad information that I passed on here. The information I had originally received stated that Ideal didn't get into detachable mold blocks until the mid to late '40s and that is not correct. The real story is that Ideal copied the idea of detachable blocks in the late '20s, shortly after they were acquired by Lyman. I apologize for passing on bad information, I'll vet my sources better before trying to date the old molds. I should have known better.

Thanks!

[Wheelgun]

The 358429 I have is from an older Lee group-buy, and one of the NOE “True Keith” molds (360-172 swc) from the group-buy a few years back.

Most of my shooting is in 38 brass at 38spl and 38 +P loadings. They do ok, but do better when pushed harder, into mid-range to full snort 357mag loadings.

My most used/most accurate 38/357 boolits are the Lyman 358156 & Lee group-buy clone & the Lee 358-158RF. Fallowed but the Lee 358-125RF…

[Bazoo]

Well, I appear to have gotten my hands on some bad information that I passed on here. The information I had originally received stated that Ideal didn't get into detachable mold blocks until the mid to late '40s and that is not correct. The real story is that Ideal copied the idea of detachable blocks in the late '20s, shortly after they were acquired by Lyman. I apologize for passing on bad information, I'll vet my sources better before trying to date the old molds. I should have known better.

Thanks!

Thanks for the correction. I couldn’t remember when they made the change.

[20:1]

Thanks for the correction. I couldn’t remember when they made the change.

Ideal, in their infinite wisdom had chosen to keep recycling their "announcement" of the end of the one-piece mold production into the '40s and maybe even as late as 1950. I need to get a set of the very early manuals before I try to understand what they were talking about, and when. "When" is a very important factor to those who follow the old Ideals.